School shootings aren't as bad as the world makes them out to be

[Twohandsondeck]

SCHOOL SHOOTINGS ARE A TRAGEDY.
Neither myself nor any sane person would argue with that.

In light of this agreement, I'd like to point out that anyone who dies under the age of 20 years old will have died before the BIBLICAL AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

This means that they are guaranteed entry into an eternal heaven on account of their immaturity.

Naturally, this also applies to abortions.

Consider that someone who dies in these tragic ways might have OTHERWISE grown past the age of 20 and THEN died in their sins, going to hell eternally. In this sense, it is something to be thankful for; the believer will understand.

If I hear a news headline that says, 'tragic school shooting, 18 children and 2 teachers dead,' - I think, "18 people definitely went to heaven and 2 people may or may not have... hope they did."

> Killing people is NEVER good news. There is NO plausible argument for why SIN is good news. This is an argument as to why the good news (God is merciful) is good news.

+++The reasoning why the biblical age of accountability is as follows:


*REASON #1

The age of 20 is when someone may go to war:

Numbers 1:3
[3] From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

Numbers 1:20
[20] And the children of Reuben, Israel's eldest son, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, by their polls, every male from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;

Numbers 26:2
[2] Take the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, from twenty years old and upward, throughout their fathers' house, all that are able to go to war in Israel.


*REASON #2

When Israel was about to enter into the promised land, only those who were both 20+ years of age AND murmured against God were not allowed to go in:

Numbers 32:11
[11] Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:

Numbers 14:29
[29] Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,


*REASON #3

When Israel was being numbered, every man had to give a ransom for his soul. The only men who were required to give a ransom for their soul were of the age of 20 and upward:

Exodus 30:11-14
[11] And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

[12] When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.

[13] This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD.

[14] Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.

Exodus 38:26
[26] A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.

___________________
A contention:

> All of these verses are in the Old Testament, how do we know that they apply to the New Testament in accordance with the present dispensation of grace?

*those who are unsaved are still under the law. Saved folk are under grace, not the law. The above verses from the Old Testament are laws to be followed.

The "ye" in Romans 6:13-14 is a reference to the saved members of the body of Christ:

Romans 6:13-14
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Study courtesy of David Reid:


View: https://youtu.be/mGw699hesGI

 

[Chad_Catholic]

The Church founded by the apostles, which would later call itself the Catholic Church, believed in the necessity of baptism for salvation. Unborn or aborted babies suffer the pain of eternal damnation, though they will find themselves at place in Hell with no fire.

Also, Jesus fulfilled the Old Law, so your argument fails completely in that regard.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

The Church founded by the apostles, which would later call itself the Catholic Church, believed in the necessity of baptism for salvation. Unborn or aborted babies suffer the pain of eternal damnation, though they will find themselves at place in Hell with no fire.

Also, Jesus fulfilled the Old Law, so your argument fails completely in that regard.

Sir, do you believe that there's one true, preserved word of God?

Or do you believe that it's up to each of us to decipher various translations to come to our own 'personal truth' of what God has told us?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

This thread is horrifying

 

[stoic]

This thread is horrifying

Agree. Religious extremism at its worst.

 

[Chad_Catholic]

Sir, do you believe that there's one true, preserved word of God?

Or do you believe that it's up to each of us to decipher various translations to come to our own 'personal truth' of what God has told us?

The Bible is infallible, yes, but it is a collection of books assembled by men, so you must then admit to the infallibility of those who determined which books to include.

 

[redsun]

SCHOOL SHOOTINGS ARE A TRAGEDY.
Neither myself nor any sane person would argue with that.

In light of this agreement, I'd like to point out that anyone who dies under the age of 20 years old will have died before the BIBLICAL AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

This means that they are guaranteed entry into an eternal heaven on account of their immaturity.

Naturally, this also applies to abortions.

Consider that someone who dies in these tragic ways might have OTHERWISE grown past the age of 20 and THEN died in their sins, going to hell eternally. In this sense, it is something to be thankful for; the believer will understand.

If I hear a news headline that says, 'tragic school shooting, 18 children and 2 teachers dead,' - I think, "18 people definitely went to heaven and 2 people may or may not have... hope they did."

> Killing people is NEVER good news. There is NO plausible argument for why SIN is good news. This is an argument as to why the good news (God is merciful) is good news.

+++The reasoning why the biblical age of accountability is as follows:


*REASON #1

The age of 20 is when someone may go to war:

Numbers 1:3
[3] From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

Numbers 1:20
[20] And the children of Reuben, Israel's eldest son, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, by their polls, every male from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;

Numbers 26:2
[2] Take the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, from twenty years old and upward, throughout their fathers' house, all that are able to go to war in Israel.


*REASON #2

When Israel was about to enter into the promised land, only those who were both 20+ years of age AND murmured against God were not allowed to go in:

Numbers 32:11
[11] Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:

Numbers 14:29
[29] Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,


*REASON #3

When Israel was being numbered, every man had to give a ransom for his soul. The only men who were required to give a ransom for their soul were of the age of 20 and upward:

Exodus 30:11-14
[11] And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

[12] When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.

[13] This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD.

[14] Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.

Exodus 38:26
[26] A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.

___________________
A contention:

> All of these verses are in the Old Testament, how do we know that they apply to the New Testament in accordance with the present dispensation of grace?

*those who are unsaved are still under the law. Saved folk are under grace, not the law. The above verses from the Old Testament are laws to be followed.

The "ye" in Romans 6:13-14 is a reference to the saved members of the body of Christ:

Romans 6:13-14
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Study courtesy of David Reid:


View: https://youtu.be/mGw699hesGI

No matter how you look at it, whether children are saved or not, this thread is horrible and should not even be allowed here if we are being honest. The long term effect school shootings have on the surviving schoolchildren, the teachers and staff, the parents and siblings of those who were killed is horrid and immense and will linger for decades in the minds of those affected. The media doesnt even show us the real horror. No one can really illustrate the horror a parent feels unless you yourself lost a child in this way. Downplaying the effect of school shootings to any degree is a severe mistake.

 

[aniciete]

GermanTruther tier post

 

[Twohandsondeck]

The Bible is infallible, yes, but it is a collection of books assembled by men, so you must then admit to the infallibility of those who determined which books to include.

Ah yes, men - a creation of the all-powerful God - have been allowed to overwrite God's perfection.

I'd suggest that preserving some sentences seems like a pretty small task compared to creating all of known existence while also knowing the end from the beginning... but hey, then again I'm a person and people are fallible. Grain of salt encouraged.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

This thread is horrifying

Agree. Religious extremism at its worst.

No matter how you look at it, whether children are saved or not, this thread is horrible and should not even be allowed here if we are being honest. The long term effect school shootings have on the surviving schoolchildren, the teachers and staff, the parents and siblings of those who were killed is horrid and immense and will linger for decades in the minds of those affected. The media doesnt even show us the real horror. No one can really illustrate the horror a parent feels unless you yourself lost a child in this way. Downplaying the effect of school shootings to any degree is a severe mistake.

Order in the court! Off with my head!

 

[Chad_Catholic]

Ah yes, men - a creation of the all-powerful God - have been allowed to overwrite God's perfection.

I'd suggest that preserving some sentences seems like a pretty small task compared to creating all of known existence while also knowing the end from the beginning... but hey, then again I'm a person and people are fallible. Grain of salt encouraged.

I already admitted to the infallibility, or perfection, of the Bible, but you fail to understand how exactly the books of the Bible came to be known collectively as the Bible. St. John, for example, waited forty years until writing the Gospel of John. The name, The Bible or The Books, at one time referred solely to the books of the Old Testament, but this changed in the third century. The Catholic Church as late as the 5th century determined which books to be canon, and Jesus founded this Church Himself, deeming it to be infallible in its teachings.

 

[TheSir]

Sir, do you believe that there's one true, preserved word of God?

Or do you believe that it's up to each of us to decipher various translations to come to our own 'personal truth' of what God has told us?

Does it not seem like both of these beliefs serve as breeding ground for a fatal kind of hubris? Surely in our simple humility we should not be overly confident of our ability to accurately assess the nature of the Bible, let alone to prescribe to it divine qualities as if it was any garden variety statue to a false God. Rather than using written word to authoratively define the living essence of experiential true faith, is it not better to let our actual relationship with God verify such words instead?

Believing in the infallibility of the Bible renders one vulnerable to Phariseeic blindness that misdirects one to glorify a reference to an object over the object itself. Moreover, infallibility necessitates perfection and there is only One who is perfect -- and the Bible is not part of His being. Hence Biblical Infallibility should rightly appear as high-level idolatry, one that is not any better than interpretational subjectivity.

Have you considered that the Bible also stands as a subtle test of faith: are you able to trust that it is, in its humane imperfection, good enough to point you towards salvation; or, will you, in your absence of secure faith, elevate it to a status that should only be reserved for God, as if in a desperate attempt to reach for something real? In the end, given that the Bible itself makes no case for its infallibility, a question then arises: was it God or man who planted this idea in our heads?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Moreover, infallibility necessitates perfection and there is only One who is perfect -- and the Bible is not part of His being.

Excuse me?

John 1:1-5,14
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In the end, given that the Bible itself makes no case for its infallibility, a question then arises: was it God or man who planted this idea in our heads?

Whaaattttt are you taaaalking about? Have you not read?

Esther 8:8
[8] Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.

John 17:17
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 14:6-11
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

2 Peter 1:20-21
[20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 3:4
[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

1 Corinthians 14:33
[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[JamesGatz]

Daily Reminder that 99.99% of ALL "Terrorist Attacks" and School Shootings are not real or if they are real they are perpetrated by ((( you-know-who )))

The World and The Media does not show the public the "horror" because the media is run by ((( you-know-who))) and so they can't show details for school shootings because 99% of them are completely fake and they can't have people catching on its just a act - parents for school shootings are all crisis actors/actresses

Manchester Arena bombing:
Happened on May 22, 2017
22 victims died
The bomber was 22-years old

22,22,22 => 322

Sandy Hook Shooting:

Newton, Connecticut (only a few miles away from Skull and Bones Headquarters at Yale)

Adam Lanza used .223 (322 backwards) caliber rounds

Meanwhile Sandy Hook School closed 5 years before this shooting took place

This guy doesn't even look like a real person

2017 Westminster attack occured on March 22, 2017 (3/22 -> 322)

Las Vegas shooting happened - but Stephen Paddock didn't do it, caught at the wrong place at the wrong time

Buffalo shooting didn't happen - look up the video of the shooting (complete photoshop magic)

9/11 happened - but Osama wasn't the brains behind the operation

 

[LadyRae]

This thread is horrifying

+1.... I can't even

 

[LadyRae]

Does it not seem like both of these beliefs serve as breeding ground for a fatal kind of hubris? Surely in our simple humility we should not be overly confident of our ability to accurately assess the nature of the Bible, let alone to prescribe to it divine qualities as if it was any garden variety statue to a false God. Rather than using written word to authoratively define the living essence of experiential true faith, is it not better to let our actual relationship with God verify such words instead?

Believing in the infallibility of the Bible renders one vulnerable to Phariseeic blindness that misdirects one to glorify a reference to an object over the object itself. Moreover, infallibility necessitates perfection and there is only One who is perfect -- and the Bible is not part of His being. Hence Biblical Infallibility should rightly appear as high-level idolatry, one that is not any better than interpretational subjectivity.

Have you considered that the Bible also stands as a subtle test of faith: are you able to trust that it is, in its humane imperfection, good enough to point you towards salvation; or, will you, in your absence of secure faith, elevate it to a status that should only be reserved for God, as if in a desperate attempt to reach for something real? In the end, given that the Bible itself makes no case for its infallibility, a question then arises: was it God or man who planted this idea in our heads?

Your thoughtful and intelligent comments are continuously refreshing, thank you!

 

[Chad_Catholic]

Excuse me?

John 1:1-5,14
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Whaaattttt are you taaaalking about? Have you not read?

Esther 8:8
[8] Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.

John 17:17
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 14:6-11
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

2 Peter 1:20-21
[20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 3:4
[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

1 Corinthians 14:33
[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

The point he is making, whether he knows it or not--ironically--proves my point, which is that you possess no authority to interpret the Bible, for God gave this authority to the Church, which He built upon Peter.

Matthew 16:16-19
"Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

 

[TheSir]

@Twohandsondeck

Your premise seems to be that any mention of 'word' in the Bible must be a reference to the Bible. May I ask why? It's a common interpretation, but one the justification if which remains elusive.

Are you aware that 'Word' when capitalized refers to Christ? Since I assume you are, whence the relevance? The problem of relevance plagues the rest of the passages you shared too; I sadly don't know what you intend me to do with them.

@LadyRae Thank you, you are too kind.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

The point he is making, whether he knows it or not--ironically--proves my point, which is that you possess no authority to interpret the Bible, for God gave this authority to the Church, which He built upon Peter.

Matthew 16:16-19
"Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

There's no private interpretations, yes. It's only does it say that or does it not? 1 or 0? The words are absolute.

But just because there's no private interpretations doesn't mean that each of us are allowed to make up our own rendition of it. It says what it says and words mean what they mean. It's a tragedy that so many people overcomplicate this by letting their flesh overcome the Spirit.

For instance, I will make the assumption from your username that you're Catholic. Are you aware of the following scriptures(?) [shortened to maintain the bolded point]:

Matthew 23:2,7-10
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
...
[7] And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

@Twohandsondeck

Your premise seems to be that any mention of 'word' in the Bible must be a reference to the Bible. May I ask why? It's a common interpretation, but one the justification if which remains elusive.

Are you aware that 'Word' when capitalized refers to Christ? Since I assume you are, whence the relevance? The problem of relevance plagues the rest of the passages you shared too; I sadly don't know what you intend me to do with them.

@LadyRae Thank you, you are too kind.

All of the verses I shared above are varied confirmations that a) Jesus Christ is the Word, b) that the singular word of God is truth (meaning all others are lies), c) that God would not give us contradicting directions and confuse us, d) that men are liars while God is not, e) the words of prophecy are not meant for private interpretation, they simply are, and f) that the words sealed by a king may not be reversed by men, hence the King James bible.

The volume of the book is written of Him, confirmed verbatim in both the Old and New Testaments. If you read, you would understand, but you do not because you are more comfortable living with yourself as the final authority of your life.

Psalms 40:7
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.