Sinatra‘s Notebook

[youngsinatra]

Have you seen any tangible effect from hopping on b2?

I remember @haidut said this in one of his old threads.

The FAD/FADH ratio is intimately connected to the NAD/NADH one. Of the 32 molecules of ATP produced from one glucose, about 80% are from the various mechanisms that use NAD as a cofactor while the remaining 20% are from the FAD/FADH reactions. So, riboflavin is also very important for metabolism and perhaps more responsive to supplementation as it is easier to get deficient in it.

You need B2 (FMN) to regulate the ratio of NAD/NADH in the first place if I remember correctly. So it’s a bit more important than B3 in my opinion.

With sufficient B2 flavoproteins we can also turn tryptophan into niacin (rather than serotonin) even when dietary B3 intake is suboptimal.

Yes, riboflavin makes me warm and turns my otherwise relatively pale (anemic looking) skin to a healthy rosy-pink complexion. It’s also working wonder for my skin quality overall. Goodbye dry skin.

 

[charlie]

Yes, riboflavin makes me warm and turns my otherwise relatively pale (anemic looking) skin to a healthy rosy-pink complexion. It’s also working wonder for my skin quality overall. Goodbye dry skin.

How much are you taking?

 

[youngsinatra]

How much are you taking?

I experimented with 10, 30, 100, 400 mg; all-at-once or spread throughout the day in the last months. I haven’t yet settled on a specific amount.

Lately I’ve been taking 100mg after lunch.

 

[charlie]

Lately I’ve been taking 100mg after lunch.

Have you noticed it messing with sleep?

 

[youngsinatra]

Have you noticed it messing with sleep?

I don’t have any real issues with sleep in general and have not noticed any negative effect of B2 on it.

I only had some sleep issues from too much B5 a few times.

 

[charlie]

I only had some sleep issues from too much B5 a few times.

Good to know, thank you.

 

[youngsinatra]

I think having single B vitamins powders or liquid droppers is very cool. You can experiment with different ratios & you can include and exclude different B vitamins.

I think putting pressure on the system with only one or two or three B vitamins can cause some metabolic bottlenecks in energy metabolism and potentially backlash.

I currently do pretty well on:
100mg of B1, B2, B5 each. (one can add B3 if wanted, but I get close to 100mg of niacin through my diet)
+ 500 mcg of biotin, folate and B12 each.

Electrolytes:
Magnesium malate powder (450mg), 1L coconut water. (2000mg potassium) Spread throughout the day with each meal.

Almost looks like the classic B100 formulation that many manufacturers sell. But without B6. I personally dislike B6 as it caused neuropathy in the past and I think most get a good amount through diet.

 

[youngsinatra]

From the old member @gbolduev (or Helen) on www.hackstas.is

 

[peter88]

Yes, riboflavin makes me warm and turns my otherwise relatively pale (anemic looking) skin to a healthy rosy-pink complexion. It’s also working wonder for my skin quality overall. Goodbye dry skin.

Why do you think this is? Not enough from diet?

 

[youngsinatra]

Why do you think this is? Not enough from diet?

Best dietary sources are: Organ meat, esp. beef heart, followed by beef liver, mushrooms and milk.

I don’t eat any of those, so it’s a possibility.

 

[youngsinatra]

I might need to lower the total amount of B‘s. Esp. thiamine and B5. I couldn’t really sleep last night because I was too warm and sweaty. Mind was calm, so no racing thoughts or so. Just too warm. This happened to me multiple times now with B1/B5 specifically.

It’s a typical high-acetylcholine-type of heat, where my body feels hot (esp. the hands and feet) and sweaty, but my actual body temperature is lowered, and the skin of my torso feels cold to touch.

 

[Rock_V]

@youngsinatra the following article may be of interest to you : High doses of riboflavin and the elimination of dietary red meat promote the recovery of some motor functions in Parkinson's disease patients

Perhaps it explains the negative side effects you experience from red meat - which according to this article can deplete Riboflavin and contribute to the onset of Parkinson’s.

Makes me wonder if all of these carnivore diets based solely on red meat may be detrimental over the long term.

 

[youngsinatra]

@youngsinatra the following article may be of interest to you : High doses of riboflavin and the elimination of dietary red meat promote the recovery of some motor functions in Parkinson's disease patients

Perhaps it explains the negative side effects you experience from red meat - which according to this article can deplete Riboflavin and contribute to the onset of Parkinson’s.

Makes me wonder if all of these carnivore diets based solely on red meat may be detrimental over the long term.

Yes I have seen this article before! Thanks for bringing it back on the radar.

The dose of riboflavin was 30mg every 8 hours, so a significant, but not really a huge dose. (90mg total daily)

Not sure if the elimination of red meat or the inclusion of riboflavin caused the favorable changes.

 

[FitnessMike]

@youngsinatra.

Recently you said that you are taking 100mg b5 among others, do you feel tangible benefits re temp/pulse from it?

I saw you tried 500mg without success months ago.

 

[youngsinatra]

@youngsinatra.

Recently you said that you are taking 100mg b5 among others, do you feel tangible benefits re temp/pulse from it?

I saw you tried 500mg without success months ago.

B5 helped my skin, energy levels, bile flow and digestion big time for a while. Right now I don’t seem to notice much from it, which is typical when a deficiency is resolved.

But I noticed that when I take biotin regularly without any B5 for a few days, I tend to notice a worsening with my skin, digestion and neuronal health, that usually resolve with some added B5.

I have a feeling that riboflavin (B2) is somehow messing with my bile flow big time currently.
I tried the following multiple times. When I leave out B2 for a few days, my bile flow gets to optimal again. Then I take (even a low dose) B2, and bile flow seems to reduce greatly and thus my digestion suffers. I strongly believe B2 is mobilizing copper and vitamin A, so maybe it has something to do with that.

Already talked with someone on facebook that observed the same thing with themselves and each of their family member!

The problem is, usually things that stop bile flow, makes one feel better temporarily, but it may cause problems long-term, when the liver is getting backed-up.

 

[charlie]

I tried the following multiple times. When I leave out B2 for a few days, my bile flow gets to optimal again. Then I take (even a low dose) B2, and bile flow seems to reduce greatly and thus my digestion suffers. I strongly believe B2 is mobilizing copper and vitamin A, so maybe it has something to do with that.

When copper moves it wrecks my digestion.

 

[youngsinatra]

I am wondering if my „pure“ riboflavin powder has some impurities that may cause this problem. Ray thought that B2 supplements to be the most allergenic of the B vitamins, likely due to processing impurities.

I will try dissolving the powder in hot water (100 degree C) and running it through a paper filter. Luckily B2 is very very heat-stable, but prone to oxidation through UV-light.

That‘s also what I do with biotin, as my powder contains cellulose which I don’t like.

 

[youngsinatra]

I am wondering if my „pure“ riboflavin powder has some impurities that may cause this problem. Ray thought that B2 supplements to be the most allergenic of the B vitamins, likely due to processing impurities.

I will try dissolving the powder in hot water (100 degree C) and running it through a paper filter. Luckily B2 is very very heat-stable, but prone to oxidation through UV-light.

That‘s also what I do with biotin, as my powder contains cellulose which I don’t like.

Unfortunately that didn’t work out.

Cut out riboflavin a one day, and already seeing the bile flow returning. (what a mystery!)

Maybe food-sources of riboflavin don’t cause that, but I don’t eat dairy, mushrooms, organ meats, so meh. May try beef heart again some time in the future. (it’s a muscle meat)

But having disrupted digestion, bile flow and poor motility is NOT worth it continuing with the B2.If digestion is getting wonky, I won’t effectively absorb the precious nutrients, fatty acids, amino acids from the foods I eat, the supplements I take and likely even negatively affect things like the absorption of thyroid hormone.

When my bile flow is wonky, I see undigested food in my stool. So it’s just straight up going through me.

Will continue with thiamine pyrophosphate (10mg), some low dose folate, B12, B5, biotin. May experiment with some flush niacin here and there. (still have that laying around in powder form)

 

[mosaic01]

Will continue with thiamine pyrophosphate (10mg), some low dose folate, B12, B5, biotin. May experiment with some flush niacin here and there. (still have that laying around in powder form)

Have you tried not taking any supplements at all for 1-2 months and see what the baseline is?

 

[youngsinatra]

Have you tried not taking any supplements at all for 1-2 months and see what the baseline is?

The longest I‘ve gone is 2 weeks I think. But deficiency symptoms (esp. neurological ones) kick in relatively fast.

My diet is very severely restricted to 4-5 foods and cronometer shows that I lack thiamine, biotin, folate, B12, vitamin E, K.

I wish I could just eat nutritious foods like red meat, leafy greens, potatoes etc, but I cannot tolerate those at all.