The Dance of Mandance

[HDD]

Well I think the fact you raised a family is the greatest thing. I dont think there is any better achievement than that. Passions are great of course...and you can have one. I think I find passions easily through curiosity. You know, if you have ever been interested in photography, cooking more, arts, anything...indulge the curiosity...you never know because it just might become mroe than a curiosity. Thats how it happeend to me everytime.

I think a lot of people are afraid to try new things like art because they think you need natural talent for it, or that they would be bad at it. For one, no one is naturally good at much...it takes hard work, and two..being bad is ok...its about the curiosity. I believe anyone can do anything...you know even if you wanted to drive race cars. I dont think its crazy to try.

The cool thing about art...of any kind...is that its your world, and you make the rules. Its completely freeing. You have can some very meaninful experiences through creative outlets like cooking, painting, music etc. Doesnt even have to be art...could be bird watching, mushroom hunting...there are tons of things out there.

Lol, mushroom hunting! I used to do that.

My mom took up painting after she had raised her family. She took several art classes, entered art shows, and volunteered in an art gallery. She loved all of it. She did this until she was in her 80's and her health declined. My walls are covered with her paintings.

 

[4peatssake]

Lol, mushroom hunting! I used to do that.

Lost Oregon "mushroom hunters" found huddled in a tree.

A fun little trip!

 

[Swandattur]

Oh yes, before I got issues with food, and could still eat most anything, I enjoyed trying out different recipes. I used to like bread making. When we lived in Alaska, I started enjoying identifying wild mushrooms, because there were many different kinds in the fall. I had just started finding wild edible plants in the spring before we left. There were lots right there in our yard. There was also a nice variety of chamomile. It smelled like pineapple. I also took up some crafts for a while. I made some odd crocheted things for a while until I got carpal tunnel syndrome. Maybe as I, hopefully, start feeling better, I'll feel like doing more things like that. I also enjoy planting things around the yard. Right now I have a Maypop (or Passion flower) growing up the side of the house and into the bathroom window. Other plants, too.
I have a friend who is an artist who is doing undersea murals on her bathroom wall. I love that!

 

[Swandattur]

HDD, that is really great that your mom enjoyed the painting so much.
My grandmother took up crocheting all kinds of animals and afghans, and doilies after my grandpa died. She also got some good friends that she had fun with.
I pretty much just identified mushrooms, and did not eat them myself, except my husband found one that was reliably not like any poisonous ones. There was a wild type that Korean people harvested for restaurants. Guess they knew what they were doing? I hope.

 

[Swandattur]

Where's the dog's googly eyes? Oh, he's the only one who didn't eat the mushrooms!

 

[HDD]

Mandance, my son is going to start taking cynoplus/cynomel. Are you using any now? He has stopped his antidepressant, but is still taking cyprexa. I read today in "Stop the Thyroid Madness" that t3 can help depression/anxiety/OCD.

 

[mandance]

hahaha the mushroom hunting picture is awesome. Thats cool HDD that your mom did so many things like that. Wonderful to hear and probably a very fufilled life as well. I am not currently taking anything other than progest e but I will say that pure t3 did make me feel happy when I took it. I only took it 3 days and it had a pretty obvious effect on my mood right away. I felt warm and happy. I stopped because I had a bad reaction after the 3 days....I basically got disabling fatigue that lasted 24 hours or so and heart palpitations. Peat said though that it was possibly because I was taking it on an empty stomach. Also I was taking 1/8th to 1/6th which was probably too much also. I should have also dosed it at night with milk and OJ. Peat thinks that my liver enzymes attacked the t3 which is what caused the bad reaction. But I should have been taking cynoplus instead of cynomel which is what I took, but my bottle of cynoplus I believe is expired. Im 100 percent sure how you tell though.

I really should order some more. Ive been in a very deep depression and I cant get out of it. Your son could also use pregnenolone...that stuff makes me feel better also. I was taking 50mg every 3 days of it with ice cream and it was really nice.

 

[mandance]

Did your son taper down? Has he been on antidepressants for a long time? Its unlikely he will suffer much from getting off. I hope that my story does not scare people...its not common and I was a decade plus user. So hopefully he has a smooth transition. At this point though...I dont even know if im suffering from withdrawals anymore or just some psychological fear/anxiety/depression crisis in my life...its very hard to tell.

 

[mandance]

Also HDD...if your son takes a lot of supplements and vitamins, I do advise caution. During withdrawals, many people experience worse withdrawal symptoms and reactions from taking supplements, especially b bitamins while going through the process, I have experienced it as well. Im not sure why this is...perhaps its the way b vitamins work on the nervous system, which withdrawals can send into chaos so it might be a good idea to just focus on diet only. Although I still take B1 without problems in small doses. Also ive noticed sometimes bad reactions mixing pregnenolone and benzodiazapines like xanax. I had to use xanax to get through the really hard times but I havent had much anxiety since.

You can always PM me anytime if anything comes up with him or you need any information but im sure he will do fine.

 

[HDD]

Thanks for your help, Chris. My son has been on and off of a variety of antidepressants for about 4 years. He was on Celexa this past year and we haven't seen any progress. He was switched to Lexapro and cyprexa. He has quit these except he uses the cyprexa to help him sleep. He wanted add medicine to help him focus and be motivated. The doctor hasn't prescribed that yet.

He started smoking when he quit the Lexapro but has quit that now. He stresses about many things including smoking which he uses to relieve stress.

I have been hesitant to give him thyroid medication because he is all over the place. I finally got him to take his temperature last night and it was normal.

I am sorry for all your difficulties with your health. Thanks for your insight,it has helped me understand my son more. I am hoping the thyroid medication will make a big difference. I just started some myself which I wanted to do before I gave it to him.

He takes a pre workout supplement and creatine and a multi. I am not sure how often.

 

[mandance]

Thanks. Yeah its odd. I've always been in great health until psychological issues started adding up. I think all my problems stem from a fear of something or a dilemma of my own existence as well as withdrawal. If your son struggles with smoking, I highly recommend the book, the easy way to stop smoking. I smoked from 19 to 25 and tried to quit countless times with no success. That book was life changing and truly made it easy to quit with no stress or worry. It gives you that lever peat talks about. Once I understood the psychology behind my addiction...it was effortless to quit and I never looked back. That was 3 years ago.

 

[mandance]

Yikes, its been rough. I feel like I might have to give in to a low dose of prozac or something more mild. I dont know if im really suffering withdrawals or something else. I have the complete alice in wonderland syndrome going on Peat talks about. But he never responded to my email and I dont want to bother him.

Things really got bad I think from the stress of my mom leaving. Ive been alone and very scared. I was doing fine until night came last night. And that guy that has been crippled with fear and depression and CFS hit me up. We chatted then he started saying how this is his last year of fighting and if he doesnt get better from this that he is probably going to kill himself. I really feel bad but I cant talk to him anymore I dont think. But the way he can nail on the head exactly the attacks that happen to me is really scary and i think talking to him and being afraid im not going to recover sent me into an attack again.

They are not panic attacks, its something new. He said they were called dsyphoric mania. Its basically where you are so depressed and trapped feeling you feel complete terror, like the devil himself is coming for oyu to drag you down to hell. I literally stayed up all night crying uncontrollably. praying to anything I could. Eventually I took a valium and fell asleep for a few hours. I woke up to call my girlfriend and ive been crying again since and terrified. Shes on her way at least. I feel like I am losing my mind and have no control at all. I am afraid also to start back up drugs right now being this sensitive as I feel like a chemical change could make things worse. The attacks are already so bad they make you think very compulsive like..suicide to escape even though I dont want to do that. Horrible thoughts just take over.

I have no idea what is happening other than comparing myself to other people in similar situations but I cant help but see the similarities. The other was even telling me I wont recover unless my soul finds out what its purpose is and that I could be like this etc. I really cant talk to him again even though hes a nice guy. I was doing better without buying into that. I wish Peat had gotten back to me. I asked my doctor if I should check into the hospital but he said it would be pointless and only reinforce my feeling like im going crazy which he thinks im not. That other guy thinks hes crazy as well but I know hes not ....but in a way we are crazy from some type of horrible fear? Idk...i hope this passes soon. Im doing all I can to try and be on top of it.

Ive been trying to be strong for my family and my mom...while my grandma is dying and shes in minnesota. I took today off work. I see my therapist wed. I cant help but feel that other guy is right in so many ways though. For years I have felt this building fear even on meds, like I dont have a purpose and was afraid of the future...I dont know of what or why. I miss being me, I love people and life and I just dont understand how this happened to me. Sorry for the rant...writing seems to help calm me down a bit while I wait for company to come.

I hope I can update with positive news soon. On a good note I did enjoy getting out the other day for awhile with my girlfriend. Its always nice to get out of this house. I guess on wed I will have a plan maybe. although plans seem limited...its either ride it out or take drugs. And this type of thing...doesnt seem to be known about in the psycology literature. My doc seems to really care about me though so hopefully he can come up with some ideas. Ive tried hard this past week to up my influence with more discipline...and i think it helps but i just think the stress of my mom leaving and being alone and my grandma dying plus losing hppe when talking to someone else about this who suffers all are doing me in. But at the same time it all just attacks me. I dont know how to avoid it. Hope everyone else is doing good.

 

[aquaman]

Hey man, this sounds really tough, I'v just read the last 2 pages only..

Can you list what you do each day, without the emotions put in, just to see what you do, when you eat, how often, what other stuff you do etc. Your age, weight, whether you used to exercise, whether you do now.

Eg I see you were doing mostly liquids, why is this?

Are you doing light therapy? Makes a big difference to me. Do you get outside..?

 

[mandance]

Hey Aquaman, thanks for writing. To sum up...I was on antidepressants for the past 15 years of so, got off 3 months ago and thats when most this chaos started.

Since being this way, my days consist of waking up around 8 or 9 and meditating for awhile on mindfulness, what im grateful for and praying for other people. After that I drink a glass of OJ with gelatin and start working. I work from home.

I am 29 6'3 245lbs, pretty muscular. Used to work out a lot. Since being this way the most excersise i get is light walking in the neighborhood.

For breakfast I usually eat chicken bone in..with rice and carrot salad, everything cooked with butter and coconut oil. Ill have another big glass of OJ and milk a few hours later. Then after that for dinner ill usually eat more meat or sometime steak, more carbs potatoes are rice..everyhting cooked in coconut oil etc. Later on after that ill usually eat half a pint of ice cream, sometimes more.

I dont get outside really at all other than when i go for the walk. On a computer pretty much all day. Its hard to go out and do things feeling this way. Not much sun now either being in Seattle.

 

[aquaman]

hey Mandance.. i'll write a longer post tomorrow,

some quick observations:

1) it's going to take a long time to recover from 15 years of Anti-depressants. DOnt' lose heart. Also allow yourself to feel shitty, don't judge things and slide deeper by reacting negatively to feeling ***t. It's ok to feel ***t for a bit.

2) food wise - think you should add in more shellfish (not farmed), white fish, bone broth (gelatin doesn't work well for my digestion), liver, meat cuts like shoulder of lamb roasted (keeping the juice) and oxtail soup, much more ripe tropical fruit

You seem to be high on the fat (butter, coconut oil, ice cream etc adds up FAST), I bet if you added it up you'd be at 50% fat. Try shooting for more like 50% cards, 25% fat and protein. Try fruit + jello as your pre-bed food, not ice cream

3) you have to get outside, i'd say at least twice a day, even if overcast it's better.

4) get 1/2/3 300W incandescant light bulbs at your work station, it's really helping my mood.

5) how's your digestion? CAscara works great for me

6) exercise... you have to find your threshold and exercise slightly over it 3 times a week.. that threshold may be just a walk, in which case you're already doing that?

7) are you recording body temps and pulse? I don't think you're eating regularly enough, in between main meals you want to be having eg tropical fruits + bone broth snacks.

8) do you have much daily contact with people? When I worked for 14 months by myself at home i went NUTS... even though i was living with family, being shut in a room all day and not getting out had BAD consequences. Are there any university campuses / coffee shops / other suitable areas near you where you can work during the day? Just being around people, and the occasioanal conversation .. and having to leave your house to work ... will make a huge difference.

9) what time do you finish work? do you keep reading on the computer screen at night? Maybe try the blue blocking glasses, you can get the for $8 off amazon http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S1933X-Eyewe ... ng+glasses

10) do you have a regular bed and wake up time? the times i have felt best in life is when having a strict routine - like sleeping within 30 minutes of the same time each night and waking at exactly the same time each day

 

[mandance]

Thanks for the response aqua...its hard not to lose heart..well mainly because 3 months out i have no idea if im suffering from those drugs or some underlying issue. Im tempted to get back on because of how bad its been lately but ill hang in there in the meantime.

Great observations on the diet, I didnt realize it but you are right..too much fat...ill try to lessen that and get more carbs and proteins.

I will try to get outside more and get some heat lamps as well. Digestion has been pretty good.

Daily contact with people is the hard part...and getting out. even though i have cabin fever bad and i hate being trapped in here. I just am suffering such extreme disorientation and foginess that it fills me with horror walking around like that...when people talk to me it can take me a moment to respond because i feel like im on acid or something. Its the main cause of my depression I feel like also.

I spend way to much time on screens, after work, and in the night. Eyes ahve been sensitive to light and lots of headaches accompnay the fog and derealisation. I try to go to bed between 11-12 and i usually wake up around 8 or 9 so its been pretty consistent.

I do wish I could interact with people more and do more things but i just feel so horrible from going out in the world i dont know how to deal with it. I get filled with fear and lose hope cause its every single day. I had minor brain fog for a year before getting off the pills but now its just so extreme I feel like I cant even drive.

Thanks again for tkaing the time..great advice.

 

[aquaman]

no problem. I wish you the best, brother!

Remember my advice comes from the point of view of someone who has never been on antidepressants (nor, obviously, come off them), nor have I known anyone on them (well, I probably have but never openly known that someone was on them).

What little I do know, it's bad to just drop off them completely. Did you taper off? Did you get medical advice on this?

Do you have medical insurance? Are you seeing a doctor now to help with the transition away from them? did someone tell you to get off them?

These things shouldn't be taken lightly. Have you found specialist forums where people taking the same antidepressants have come off them for a long time? Are there meetup groups for people in the same situation, where you can go where you feel it's "OK" to have brain fog and still interact with others?

Are you able to cut out screens after 7pm each night for 2-3 weeks?

Use the blue blockers, read a book, see if you can start to fall asleep earlier.. maybe you need a month of getting to bed at 9-10pm each night to really recover. Last night I went to bed at midnight, I feel shitty today, couldn't focus at work. Last week I did 2 nights at 10pm, awake at 6.30 am, and felt amazing those days..

 

[Swandattur]

I think aquaman is giving some good advice. It's good if someone fresh to your your problems can look it over. I think you do definitely need daily face to face contact with people. That makes a big difference for me and I think it's pretty much a thing about being human. Bright incandescent lights seem like a very good idea, and I think it would be worth a try to wear glasses that filter the blue light of the computer screen. Maybe there is something about computer screens that could be causing a problem. I mean when was the last time you weren't using a computer? Try not to let what that guy says who is having so much trouble pull you down into a worse state. I'm not sure if it's so good for depressed people to get together so much. It seems too easy to depress each other. Anyway, you do not have a history of concussion, do you? That is a very different situation. You really need to talk to other people who are not depressed every day. It can work wonders for your outlook. One person can not tell another person that they have to find a missing part of their soul, or whatever. Just like a person can not tell another person what their own dream means. It is a very personal thing. Only you could have any real idea about that. Anyway, I'm sure there are many ways of finding lost parts of ourselves.

 

[mandance]

Thanks man.

Yeah I see a therapist every wed. for over a year and he is handling all this. I was on the lowest possible dose for like 7 months then I got off but still hard. I avoid the meetup groups because hearing horror stories makes me feel must worse. Im very vunerable like this so hearing that stuff weighs heavy on me. I could try to cut out screen time...but its hard to concentrate on anything like reading because im suffering so badly mentally. Ive had such extreme depression that I cant stop crying. The best I can do is maybe interact with close friends or be in a park. I usually get in bed by 10 but I watch movies or space out for awhile.

I will go over it all again with my doc on wed. Im guessing I might have to get back on them at this point. There doesnt seem to be any answers as to what is going on...all I know is that I feel I have no control over my moods right now. I have an intense feeling of being trapped in my hosue and my mind and body and this horror etc. its so hard to explain like i cant take any more but there is no escape etc. Ill do the best I can and see what happens wed. thanks again.

 

[Swandattur]

Seems like you are having panic attacks. They can make you feel weirdly awful. You need to counteract with positive things.