The Dance of Mandance

[mandance]

these are different. Normal panic attacks feel like heart attacks...these are like something ive never experienced before. Its like fear and depression rolled into one and it causes feelings of extreme agitation and discomfort...like you are being torn apart. Like you want out of your own body and mind. It usually involved uncontrollable crying also. But none of the classic panic attack feelings like the heart etc. Its all mental. I guess it must be from the drugs perhaps.

 

[HDD]

Chris,
I have been skimming through another book on hypothyroidism called "Stop the Thyroid Madness". It lists the following mental, emotional and psychological symptoms as symptoms of hypothyroidism: depression, anxiety, excessive fear, bi-polar mood swings, rage, ruminating thoughts, chronic irritability, paranoia, confusion, concentration problems, memory problems, OCD, mental aberrations, brain fog

Later in the book it talks specifically about T3.

"Biologically, thyroid hormones, especially the active and life-giving T3, interact with brain receptors and make the brain more sensitive in favor of norepinephrine or serotonin. Norepinephrine, a neurotransmitter, plays a role in your alertness, memory and the balancing of your mood. Serotonin, another neurotransmitter, regulates mood and emotion."

I don't agree with everything in the book but some of the information is useful.

Have you considered taking cynoplus/cynomel again?



"Thyroid, especially T3, has been commonly used in the treatment of depression, and there are many indications that, as it relieves the depression, it is also correcting a state of stress, lowering the cortisol which is typically chronically increased in depression, making sleep restful, rather than debilitating.” -RP

Working on your diet and environment is very important too. After using most of the dietary and supplemental recommendations for over a year, my metabolism is pretty good. I do have to jump through a lot of hoops to keep it that way. I also have a very warm climate here. I still have chosen to use thyroid medication for greater healing. You may need to do the same. It is sometimes only temporary to need medication. Some only need diet.

 

[Swandattur]

Chris, you do get speeded up pulse during a panic attack, right? That was the only feeling of heart involvement I ever got. Besides feeling like you are dying, you can also get the feeling you are going crazy. That's classic, too, for panic attack.

What HDD says about hypothyroid symptoms sounds pretty like what you describe. Maybe thyroid medication would help. Often times they use a type of thyroid medication to help with severe depression, because they know it sometimes helps. Maybe it would have helped me before if it had been cynoplus or cynomel instead of Synthroid.

I mentioned what you are going through to my sister, and she thought some kind of relaxation or positive affirmation CDs or DVDs might help counteract some of the negative rumination when you have no one to talk to. That sort of thing has helped me, too.

 

[mandance]

Hey thanks guys. Yeah I have cynoplus and cynomel...I think the cynoplus might be expired, I can try cynomel again...although last time it gave me CFS like symptoms and heart palpitations so im scared to try it again although I could maybe try it at night with milk and OJ and an 8th of a tab? Or should I try the cynoplus..I cant tell if it is actually expired or not...I think both might be possibly buyt the cynomel worked, thats for sure.

What are positive affirmation cds ? I should look into that...need to get lights this week also.

 

[Swandattur]

I guess you need a voice you like telling you you're going to be okay to counteract the 'bad' voice in your head saying negative things. I wonder if your psychologist would know of some good ones? I'll ask my sister if she knows of some. I guess, also, you could listen to music that has an uplifting message. My sister likes this Billy Joel one. I used to like this relaxation tape I had. It was just a progressive muscle relaxation tape, but it really helped when I had had panic attacks and then depression. There are lots of relaxation you tube videos, of course. Maybe they have positive affirmation ones, too.
Isn't it supposed to be better to take both cynomel and cynoplus together? I haven't tried it, though. So, I'm not very familiar with the procedure.

 

[mandance]

Yeah I think you are right about the thryroid combination. That audio stuff sounds interesting. I know its a combination of things..I know its my mind..but also just waking up and crying right away...there is something biological going on also that I have no control over also. Its like it doesnt even matter sometimes how mindful I am...i just get attacked basically.

 

[Swandattur]

I wish they understood this stuff better, like at all! I think it is biological, but you can, I think, have an effect on it by working on relaxation. This article explains positive affirmations for panic attacks. I thought it might be a reasonable introduction. http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/livin ... ations.htm
I definitely feel my panic attacks had a life of their own, but working on relaxation did have an affect on them.

 

[Swandattur]

I googled it, and it appears uncontrollable crying can be a panic attack symptom. You would wonder if people have always had this, or is it a recent development? Do you have irritating fluorescent lights in your house? Those might be a trigger when your nerves are raw. After all, they can trigger seizures in people with epilepsy. Just a thought.

 

[mandance]

Yeah thats good stuff. One person referred to the attacks as dsyphoric mania..but i dont care much for labels. But it is like an attack for sure. My eyes have been hurting a lot lately..very sensitive. I think maybe it could be a combination of constant computers, and being in this house so not looking at things in the distance very much perhaps could be doing it. also chronic headaches still, always behind eyes and in forehead. But its usally in line with the fog and derealisation stuff. Light def makes all those issues worse thats why I could never figure if it was a neurological or psychological issue. But seeing as how its worse off the meds...im assuming its psychological perhaps from stress perhaps. Its a huge mystery all these symptoms.

 

[Swandattur]

Physiological and psychological aspects affect each other. The problems you are having now may have a joint physiological and psychological cause. They play off of each other. How you think about something can actually have an effect on your condition. That's how cognitive therapy is supposed to work. It actually alters brain chemistry. It would be nice if you could find someone who is more of a natural healer to help you through this. I think there probably are people who are naturally good at helping people feel better. Didn't Ray Peat mention something like that? Light bothers my eyes more when I've eaten something I'm allergic to. Maybe you are allergic to something.

 

[Swandattur]

Do you try breathing into a paper bag when you are starting to feel panicky or anxious? That might help. I did that this morning for a stuffy nose and it unstopped my nose. I just used the cover over my face instead of a bag.

The irritated eyes and headaches do sound like allergy or histamine intolerance symptoms. Actually, panic attacks are listed as allergy and histamine intolerance symptoms.

 

[Swandattur]

Here's an article about someone's experiences with panic attacks being caused by histamine in food: http://afraidoffood.wordpress.com/tag/h ... lerance-2/
I haven't read it all yet, but it seems pretty informative. I don't know about the juice fast. I just thought the part about the panic attacks might be helpful.

 

[Swandattur]

Don't mean to be pesky! My youngest sister and I have been researching this lately. Here's a good article: http://www.histamine-intolerance.info/

 

[mandance]

haha you are not pesky, I like all the info and appreciate it! Ill look into the histamine thing. But again, I ahvent really been having panic attacks...its more like...a manic episode of severe depression so intense you want out of your body. I havent had a nomral panic attack in a few months but maybe the same thigns can still work. If it happens again...ill try bag breathing for sure.

 

[Swandattur]

It seems your body and brain can sure throw some weird stuff at you. Sounds like a combination panic and depressed episode. The bag breathing might help with it, though. In that article it says not getting enough oxygen in the brain causes hypoxia and that can prevent some type of dopamine synthesis. Bag breathing is supposed to increase the body's use of oxygen by increasing carbon dioxide. So, maybe it would work by allowing dopamine synthesis.
Here's an article about Alice in Wonderland syndrome: http://headaches.about.com/od/migrained ... ndrome.htm

 

[mandance]

Cool, thanks for the link. Yeah i was doing a lot of bag breathing for awhile. I havent lately so ill keep trying it when im feeling on edge.

 

[mandance]

Thats also a confusing thing why I dont know if my chronic fog and now worse derelaization is from the drugs and stress...or from a migraine i have over a year ago. That is when the fog and chronic head pressure started. But I had an mri and an eeg and nothing was found. So its still a mystery to me as to what the deal is. Im tempted to see another neurologist but I dont know what more they could tell me. I feel that one migraine i had was from stress...then a neurologist actually 2, had thought it knocked me off balance psychologically to the point where my antidepressants were not being effective anymore but i tried multiple other kinds. One of them took those issues away for a few weeks but it always comes back. Now that im off, its much worse. I dont hallucinate..but it just seems like everything is foggy and fake looking and my eyes and head always hurt.

 

[Swandattur]

It does seem kind of like a migraine related thing. That article or another I read said you could have the migraine aura symptoms without the migraine headache itself. Didn't Peat write about heading off a migraine with a half quart of ice cream or something like that? Also, another way was maybe the carrot salad? I'm sure about the ice cream.

 

[mandance]

Yeah, I eat lots of carrot and ice cream but its constant. One neurologist thought it was depression also. She said she had an elderly patient once..who had dementia like symptoms but it turned out to be extreme depression that they did fix with antidepressants. But yeah, its a mystery. I just hope it goes away. I cant imagine living a life like this unless it was a limited one and probably a lonely one. But i havent given up yet.

 

[Swandattur]

I guess dopamine and other hormones play a role in things of that nature. I guess you can have too much dopamine or too little. I read an article that mentioned when people with Parkindson's first get on dopamine agonists, they may have some type of hallucinations. I don't know how Ray Peat would interpret that. I think I probably need more dopamine, which I got from Wellbutrin, but Wellbutrin also ups the adrenalin. I felt best for about a month after getting off Wellbutrin. I think maybe that was because dopamine was still up regulated, but I wasn't getting the adrenalin rise, maybe. Maybe, with time, I'll get on more even keel, or maybe I will get up the nerve to try thyroid medication.