Thyroid Dose Increase Causes Anxiety: Why?

[mgrabs]

What is the mechanism behind immediate anxiety and “out of body” feeling when you increase your dose of thyroid? Im on 1 grain bumping up another 1/4 grain..

Ive been on a grain for a few weeks.. started to get hypo symptoms again which is why I wanted to bump up.

I’m trying to go slow but the anxiety makes you wanna go backwards!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

What is the mechanism behind immediate anxiety and “out of body” feeling when you increase your dose of thyroid? Im on 1 grain bumping up another 1/4 grain..

Ive been on a grain for a few weeks.. started to get hypo symptoms again which is why I wanted to bump up.

I’m trying to go slow but the anxiety makes you wanna go backwards!

Yeah I would take that as not a good sign, but then again I am not much of a believer in supplements.

 

[mgrabs]

Yeah I would take that as not a good sign, but then again I am not much of a believer in supplements.

You dont take thyroid?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

You dont take thyroid?

No, I never have. I don’t take supplements except for an occasional vitamin k1

 

[wzuo]

For me it was serotonin issue, and cyproheptadine helped and I was able to increase thyroid to 2 grains, before cypro I barely handled 1 grain and nothing helped.

 

[mgrabs]

For me it was serotonin issue, and cyproheptadine helped and I was able to increase thyroid to 2 grains, before cypro I barely handled 1 grain and nothing helped.

What is cypro?

 

[gd81]

What is the mechanism behind immediate anxiety and “out of body” feeling when you increase your dose of thyroid? Im on 1 grain bumping up another 1/4 grain..

Ive been on a grain for a few weeks.. started to get hypo symptoms again which is why I wanted to bump up.

I’m trying to go slow but the anxiety makes you wanna go backwards!

Probably increased sensitivity to adrenaline



Part VI: Troubleshooting
“One mistake which has been made in the past has been to start thyroid therapy with excessive amounts. Another has been to give up too soon to expect immediate results, immediate disappearance of symptoms. And still a third has been to stop thyroid therapy because the patient has become nervous and the nervousness has been thought to be the result of too much thyroid. If the basal temperature is still low or within the normal range, it is a clear indication that the nervousness and other symptoms are not coming from too much thyroid and thyroid therapy should continue while an effort is made to overcome or adjust to what is really the disturbing factor.” — Broda Barnes (1973)

“That sort of sudden adrenaline effect can happen when there’s something essential missing in the diet, while the requirements are increased by using thyroid. Deficiencies of protein, magnesium, calcium, and the B vitamins are most likely. Too much phosphate and too little carbohydrate are other possibilities.” … “When you first start taking thyroid again, your tissues will need some extra magnesium...” — Ray Peat

“Administration of thyroid to these patients, in the absence of a vitamin B supplement, usually caused exacerbation of the signs and symptoms of deficiency without significant change in the metabolic rate.” — Morton Biskind (1946)

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

• Not accounting for extremely high adrenaline. If a person has been low thyroid for a long time, they might have very high adrenaline. In this situation, it's critical to take very small amounts of T3 with food -- maybe one microgram to gauge the response. If a person experiences negative symptoms with extremely small amounts of T3, they could investigate dietary calcium, vitamin D, vitamin K, salt, sugar, aspirin, progesterone, and other things that help lower adrenaline.[2,3]

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

 

[gd81]

Yeah I would take that as not a good sign, but then again I am not much of a believer in supplements.

I have no idea why people who have no experience with thyroid opine on this topic

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I have no idea why people who have no experience with thyroid opine on this topic

It is not a one size fits all with supplements.

 

[gd81]

It is not a one size fits all with supplements.

That's not saying much of anything.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

That's not saying much of anything.

To help you understand @gd8, I often answer questions to help get attention to the question. So many questions get ignored, and I am trying to be helpful. This particular question seemed like an easy answer, if a supplement is not making a person feel good it seems like a good indication to me that it probably isn’t wise to take it, but like I originally said, how would I know, I don’t take thyroid.

 

[mgrabs]

To help you understand @gd8, I often answer questions to help get attention to the question. So many questions get ignored, and I am trying to be helpful. This particular question seemed like an easy answer, if a supplement is not making a person feel good it seems like a good indication to me that it probably isn’t wise to take it, but like I originally said, how would I know, I don’t take thyroid.

Understand! I just sometimes hear that it gets worse before it gets better? Especially with thyroid dose increases etc

 

[mgrabs]

Probably increased sensitivity to adrenaline



Part VI: Troubleshooting
“One mistake which has been made in the past has been to start thyroid therapy with excessive amounts. Another has been to give up too soon to expect immediate results, immediate disappearance of symptoms. And still a third has been to stop thyroid therapy because the patient has become nervous and the nervousness has been thought to be the result of too much thyroid. If the basal temperature is still low or within the normal range, it is a clear indication that the nervousness and other symptoms are not coming from too much thyroid and thyroid therapy should continue while an effort is made to overcome or adjust to what is really the disturbing factor.” — Broda Barnes (1973)

“That sort of sudden adrenaline effect can happen when there’s something essential missing in the diet, while the requirements are increased by using thyroid. Deficiencies of protein, magnesium, calcium, and the B vitamins are most likely. Too much phosphate and too little carbohydrate are other possibilities.” … “When you first start taking thyroid again, your tissues will need some extra magnesium...” — Ray Peat

“Administration of thyroid to these patients, in the absence of a vitamin B supplement, usually caused exacerbation of the signs and symptoms of deficiency without significant change in the metabolic rate.” — Morton Biskind (1946)

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

• Not accounting for extremely high adrenaline. If a person has been low thyroid for a long time, they might have very high adrenaline. In this situation, it's critical to take very small amounts of T3 with food -- maybe one microgram to gauge the response. If a person experiences negative symptoms with extremely small amounts of T3, they could investigate dietary calcium, vitamin D, vitamin K, salt, sugar, aspirin, progesterone, and other things that help lower adrenaline.[2,3]

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

This is very interesting thank you. Seems like my issue. I know i need it. But any increase I get a little
Gittery and anxious. So it makes me think i need to decrease when i shouldnt! Because my labs still show an elevated tsh of 3.5 and above. On a grain. So im trying to bump up a half a grain

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

@Phaedrus posted this elsewhere, which I see @mgrabs has commented in, but for others…

“Peat talked several times about how he stopped taking NDT since Armour changed their formula in 1990, and he had never found a good alternative. I think the issue is it’s difficult with NDT to ensure consistency across products or even the same product. I think it’s more likely you could get varying doses of T3/T4 than with synthetic thyroid.

Ray stated that he has since only used Cytomel and Cynoplus. I do the same, as NDT never did the trick for me.

I would caution that you need to start small, 1-3mcg. Don’t start with much more, and only work your way up slowly as T4 has a half life of up to a week, so its effects are more cumulative. Also, take it during or after a high carb meal to minimize the likelihood of an adrenaline response. And I will second what others have suggested - ensuring your nutrition and overall calories are adequate will go a long way in preventing other negative reactions (e.g. nutritional deficiencies).”

Best Ways To Start Thyroid

Hey All, I know there has been good & bad experiences while taking thyroid hormone. Myself being one of them.. I was always good but once i stopped I seemed to never tolerate it again. I believe I wasn’t able to tolerate NDT because of how much stress i was under during that time. (Ths...

raypeatforum.com

 

[mgrabs]

@Phaedrus posted this elsewhere, which I see @mgrabs has commented in, but for others…

“Peat talked several times about how he stopped taking NDT since Armour changed their formula in 1990, and he had never found a good alternative. I think the issue is it’s difficult with NDT to ensure consistency across products or even the same product. I think it’s more likely you could get varying doses of T3/T4 than with synthetic thyroid.

Ray stated that he has since only used Cytomel and Cynoplus. I do the same, as NDT never did the trick for me.

I would caution that you need to start small, 1-3mcg. Don’t start with much more, and only work your way up slowly as T4 has a half life of up to a week, so its effects are more cumulative. Also, take it during or after a high carb meal to minimize the likelihood of an adrenaline response. And I will second what others have suggested - ensuring your nutrition and overall calories are adequate will go a long way in preventing other negative reactions (e.g. nutritional deficiencies).”

Best Ways To Start Thyroid

Hey All, I know there has been good & bad experiences while taking thyroid hormone. Myself being one of them.. I was always good but once i stopped I seemed to never tolerate it again. I believe I wasn’t able to tolerate NDT because of how much stress i was under during that time. (Ths...

raypeatforum.com

Im not sure how i feel about that because theres a ton of people on a few grains! Which is way over 2-3mcg of T3. How do those people do it no problem?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Im not sure how i feel about that because theres a ton of people on a few grains! Which is way over 2-3mcg of T3. How do those people do it no problem?

Maybe it is a thing where it works until it doesn’t, like so many other supplements. I read so many people on the forum going off of it for a reason, and then trying to go back in without the same first success.

 

[sweetpeat]

It's not uncommon to need more thyroid as we move into winter. Are you taking it all at once or splitting the dose?
I sometimes find that when I make a dosage change, I also need to change how and/or when I take it.

 

[gd81]

if a supplement is not making a person feel good it seems like a good indication to me that it probably isn’t wise to take it

well, that's not necessarily true when it comes to thyroid

 

[PopSocket]

well, that's not necessarily true when it comes to thyroid

If the side effects persist after trying to optimize diet and cover for any deficiencies than that would be true for thyroid too.

Thyroid is tricky if not done properly and some peoole just feel bad while on it due to individualised response.

AFAIK Haidut is one of them I believe and cannot take thyroid for more than a couple of days. I bet he tried a thing or two to make it work but it didn't.

I LOVE thyroid btw. Been on it for a bit more than a month and the results are nothing short of a miracle even with a somewhat healthy thyroid function. But this is not the case for many people.

 

[TAG145]

What is the mechanism behind immediate anxiety and “out of body” feeling when you increase your dose of thyroid? Im on 1 grain bumping up another 1/4 grain..

Ive been on a grain for a few weeks.. started to get hypo symptoms again which is why I wanted to bump up.

I’m trying to go slow but the anxiety makes you wanna go backwards!

Hello, I am in the same boat as you. I believe I have an Adrenaline response. I’ve been trying to optimize my dose for 20 years. My labs show I need more than 2 grains but would always have nervousness/anxiety symptoms. I reduced my dose when it started to impact my driving in the highway. I would have to pull over and take side streets-lol! I thought it was the additives in Armour so I had my dr. give me rx for compounded with only acidophilus as the filler. So then 2 grains of that still ended up causing me problems. Now I’ve ordered Tyromax and intend to use that with my rx to slowly ramp up smaller doses. I do take D, magnesium regularly but B vitamins are difficult for me and I’m always lower for B12, so maybe that is the missing piece too. Ultimately, I think going slow and supporting your energy needs. I am trying to do the same. Good luck.