Tooth Decay Help

[InChristAlone]

There is plenty of examples of people with good teeth who never touched fluoride in their life. Both current examples, like myself, and the people that people like Weston A Price studied. What works for you is awesome I'm not debating you should be doing anything else, but there is more to the story than what Ellie hypothesizes is the issue.

The so called Ray Peat diet is terrible for teeth when practiced in most North American regions, we had talked before about the absence of vegetables as a contributor to your oral health.

Systemic antibiotics most definitely help eradicate oral issues without a direct disturbance to the oral microbiome, I have seen this in healing infections in the people around me with things like Augmentin, Ray has also mentioned this.

Most people brush their teeth far too infrequently, it doesn't matter if S Mutans is in your mouth, it just matters if they have fuel to metabolize aka leaving food in your mouth and it's crevices, almost everyone has S Mutans. It's another microbial scapegoat. I think people should be brushing minimum 5 times a day, with a non oral microbiome disrupting substance or the miswak.

Yes I'm just a guy on the Internet but I base my views on people just as if not more est established in science than Ellie, who after all is another person someone found through studying in the Internet.

In my previous response I missed an antibiotic she recommends which is closys. So she uses alcohol, essential oils (Listerine) and essentially bleach to "clean" the mouth, yet bashes things like green tea and sodium bicarbonate as beneficial biofilm disrupters, quite the claim considering the nukes she herself uses.

How is it possible she knows the microbiome comes back if she recommends this as a ongoing treatment... guaranteed eventually without this protocol the mouth will be more susceptible to both infection, tooth decay and oral cancer.

Once again not an attempt to say what you are doing is wrong, but just in case other people read and wonder why I'm not 100% on board with her.

Yes I agree that high carb diets cause decay without brushing and healthy saliva flow. I have always had a high carb diet my entire life. Plus acidic drinks. I didn't care to brush everyday. Then after hearing the harms of fluoride I eschewed brushing even more. So yeah I'm not a good example of good oral hygiene, but I was trying in the last few yrs to brush and water pik every single day with no fluoride. I couldn't stop the decay. It was still advancing. After getting most of the decay taken care of by a dentist my mouth is healthier and doesn't stink so maybe I don't need the entire system Dr. Ellie uses but I am giving it a try for at least 6 months to see what my next dental cleaning looks like. If she doesn't have much to do I will consider that a success. If plaque is still forming, then I wasn't doing it enough, I only do it once a day instead of twice like she recommends. I am susceptible to sensitivity with too much brushing. Including when I was using baking soda. Crest has been better despite being higher on the abrasive scale. I now believe vitamin A toxicity to be the cause of crumbling teeth not a lack of vegetables. But you reminded me of our conversation from a yr ago.

I haven't heard the anecdotes of antibiotics healing oral infections. Typically even with them you need a root canal for abscessed teeth. But we aren't talking about abscessed teeth we are talking about plaque and decay.

Do you have a protocol you follow for healthy teeth?

 

[averymk]

Does anyone know what this tooth decay is called? I had it as a kid and dentist did some filling when I was 8-9 yo. Its come back with a vengeance recently and I am not sure what to do. Antibiotics or visit to dentist again? My diet is pretty clean - No alcohol, no excess sugar or starch. Mostly 60% animal protein, 30% carbs (White rice), veggies and 10% fat.

I would order some Tartar End toothpaste and start dissolving that plaque, then I’d get Dentite (an amazing nano-hydroxyapatite that rebuilds enamel) along w changing the diet. I think it’s a sign you have poor bile flow. Use the Bass toothbrush method that Orawellness recommends or get a sonic or electric toothbrush.

 

[user8374]

Turkish oregano is the most potent, I've tried the Mexican variety and others and they just taste like herbal tea with no medicinal feel

Yeah turkish and greek varieties are the highest in carvacrol. You can buy greek oregano straight from greece for fairly cheap on etsy.

 

[Mossy]

Use 1-2 tablespoons depending on the oregano variety. Let it steep for around 30 minutes and then use it like you would use mouthwash. It should burn inside your mouth only a little which means it will be effective. Try not to eat for a few hours after doing this.

Appreciate the detail. Thank you.

 

[Mossy]

Turkish oregano is the most potent, I've tried the Mexican variety and others and they just taste like herbal tea with no medicinal feel

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Mossy]

@RealNeat , @user8374 , or anyone else,

Do you have any thoughts about the potency and effectiveness of an alcohol based oregano extract, as compared to an oregano tea? Coincidentally, I'm making alcohol based extracts of cardamom, star anise, anise seed, and parsley, to be used with a homemade toothpaste and mouthwash. I can easily make an oregano extract as well, using the better varieties of oregano and vodka.

 

[user8374]

@RealNeat , @user8374 , or anyone else,

Do you have any thoughts about the potency and effectiveness of an alcohol based oregano extract, as compared to an oregano tea? Coincidentally, I'm making alcohol based extracts of cardamom, star anise, anise seed, and parsley, to be used with a homemade toothpaste and mouthwash. I can easily make an oregano extract as well, using the better varieties of oregano and vodka.

You don't need to make an extract for oregano. Carvacrol is fairly water soluble so it would be kinda pointless. Just buy a greek variety dried oregano from etsy and all you need is 1 tablespoon and you will see how potent it is. Just bring a cup of water to a boil, turn off the heat and let it steep for 20 minutes or so. When you use it as a mouthwash it will burn your mouth a little but that's how you know it will be effective.

 

[Mossy]

You don't need to make an extract for oregano. Carvacrol is fairly water soluble so it would be kinda pointless. Just buy a greek variety dried oregano from etsy and all you need is 1 tablespoon and you will see how potent it is. Just bring a cup of water to a boil, turn off the heat and let it steep for 20 minutes or so. When you use it as a mouthwash it will burn your mouth a little but that's how you know it will be effective.

I will give the tea a shot, for starters. Maybe for a future version I will try the extract. My thought is that the extract may allow for a longer shelf-life, where I wouldn't have to make it as often. Thanks for the input.

 

[kaybb]

Does anyone know what this tooth decay is called? I had it as a kid and dentist did some filling when I was 8-9 yo. Its come back with a vengeance recently and I am not sure what to do. Antibiotics or visit to dentist again? My diet is pretty clean - No alcohol, no excess sugar or starch. Mostly 60% animal protein, 30% carbs (White rice), veggies and 10% fat.

Look up: calciumtherapy.com. These products have helped me and my family so much. The dentist will also communicate through email or phone appt. There’s utube info also. Good luck

 

[Ben.]

Look up: calciumtherapy.com. These products have helped me and my family so much. The dentist will also communicate through email or phone appt. There’s utube info also. Good luck

calcium therapy has been mentioned on the forum in the past. What annoys me the most is that i can't seem to find information what kind of calcium/zinc he actually uses. The only answer i come across is "regular industrial ones". I've seen speculation that calclium lactate is supposed to be water soluble and thus make the most sense but as far as i see it plain calcium carbonate is used.

I also dont see how it is supposed to actually help with massive calculus/tartar buildup all around the teeth.

 

[RealNeat]

calcium therapy has been mentioned on the forum in the past. What annoys me the most is that i can't seem to find information what kind of calcium/zinc he actually uses. The only answer i come across is "regular industrial ones". I've seen speculation that calclium lactate is supposed to be water soluble and thus make the most sense but as far as i see it plain calcium carbonate is used.

I also dont see how it is supposed to actually help with massive calculus/tartar buildup all around the teeth.

I have posted the ingredients for the calcium materials before on the forum and believe I figured out exactly what it is, it's calcium hydroxide and zinc, I can't locate the exact place I mentioend it but I did also warn of some fillers in the formulation. If you search my name and calcium therapy or "Manhart" you should be able to find my exact post.

It likely won't help with hardened tartar and I don't think Manhart claims that it does, rather it can help alkalize the mouth which makes removing tartar easier. The video I posted above my Dr. Berg shows how with simply baking soda and peroxide. Taking 1mg mk4 daily also made it so my tartar just started falling off like others have mentioned. You can use a metal tool every now and then to remove buildup. Just don't use it too often.

 

[Mossy]

You don't need to make an extract for oregano. Carvacrol is fairly water soluble so it would be kinda pointless. Just buy a greek variety dried oregano from etsy and all you need is 1 tablespoon and you will see how potent it is. Just bring a cup of water to a boil, turn off the heat and let it steep for 20 minutes or so. When you use it as a mouthwash it will burn your mouth a little but that's how you know it will be effective.

I did find some Greek oregano and have tried this. It does burn a bit, as you say. Do you keep the tea for any extended period of time, so you don't have to brew it often? I would imagine freshness is preferred. I've also started an extract, for the benefit of a long shelf-life and not needing to make it often. Lastly, not rinsing or brushing after rinsing with tea should require some kind of plan to prevent teeth staining. Just a thought.

 

[user8374]

I did find some Greek oregano and have tried this. It does burn a bit, as you say. Do you keep the tea for any extended period of time, so you don't have to brew it often? I would imagine freshness is preferred. I've also started an extract, for the benefit of a long shelf-life and not needing to make it often. Lastly, not rinsing or brushing after rinsing with tea should require some kind of plan to prevent teeth staining. Just a thought.

The longest I've kept it is for a few days but I imagine it would last longer. I guess when it loses the burning you will know that it is starting to lose effectiveness and to brew a new tea. I did not notice any staining but I think you are fine to rinse or brush if you're worried.

 

[sunny]

There is plenty of examples of people with good teeth who never touched fluoride in their life. Both current examples, like myself, and the people that people like Weston A Price studied. What works for you is awesome I'm not debating you should be doing anything else, but there is more to the story than what Ellie hypothesizes is the issue.

The so called Ray Peat diet is terrible for teeth when practiced in most North American regions, we had talked before about the absence of vegetables as a contributor to your oral health.

Systemic antibiotics most definitely help eradicate oral issues without a direct disturbance to the oral microbiome, I have seen this in healing infections in the people around me with things like Augmentin, Ray has also mentioned this.

Most people brush their teeth far too infrequently, it doesn't matter if S Mutans is in your mouth, it just matters if they have fuel to metabolize aka leaving food in your mouth and it's crevices, almost everyone has S Mutans. It's another microbial scapegoat. I think people should be brushing minimum 5 times a day, with a non oral microbiome disrupting substance or the miswak.

Yes I'm just a guy on the Internet but I base my views on people just as if not more est established in science than Ellie, who after all is another person someone found through studying in the Internet.

In my previous response I missed an antibiotic she recommends which is closys. So she uses alcohol, essential oils (Listerine) and essentially bleach to "clean" the mouth, yet bashes things like green tea and sodium bicarbonate as beneficial biofilm disrupters, quite the claim considering the nukes she herself uses.

How is it possible she knows the microbiome comes back if she recommends this as a ongoing treatment... guaranteed eventually without this protocol the mouth will be more susceptible to both infection, tooth decay and oral cancer.

Once again not an attempt to say what you are doing is wrong, but just in case other people read and wonder why I'm not 100% on board with her.

What kind d of things have you used Augmentin for?

Years ago I was making tooth powder with baking soda and a green HERB. It worked really well. I quit because I was reading baking soda harsh on teeth. I now know this was not the case, and trying to remember what the HERB was. I think it might have been oregano.

"Systemic antibiotics most definitely help eradicate oral issues without a direct disturbance to the oral microbiome, I have seen this in healing infections in the people around me with things like Augmentin, Ray has also mentioned this."

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Mewing, taping one’s mouth shut at night and chewing gum would be beneficial for dental problems….

“A POWERFUL tool against cavities, bad breath, gum disease and… even oral cancers?!Why MASTIC GUM is surprisingly useful for a variety of dental problems.”

Peatiest Chewing Gum

I want a chewing gum to even my maseter muscles and I'm considering this... Would love to hear your opinions

raypeatforum.com

 

[Ben.]

I have posted the ingredients for the calcium materials before on the forum and believe I figured out exactly what it is, it's calcium hydroxide and zinc, I can't locate the exact place I mentioend it but I did also warn of some fillers in the formulation. If you search my name and calcium therapy or "Manhart" you should be able to find my exact post.

It likely won't help with hardened tartar and I don't think Manhart claims that it does, rather it can help alkalize the mouth which makes removing tartar easier. The video I posted above my Dr. Berg shows how with simply baking soda and peroxide. Taking 1mg mk4 daily also made it so my tartar just started falling off like others have mentioned. You can use a metal tool every now and then to remove buildup. Just don't use it too often.

Thanks alot. Isn't calciumhydroxide kinda ... harsh?

I still have troubles making sense on how to tackle this in general yet i have not lost hope in saving and healing my teeth and gums (or my body i general).

My understanding thus far is that for w/e reason (toxins, malnutrition, infection etc.) will lead to a persons natural capability to not maintain the basic integrity in their mouth. Energy (Nad+) declines and/or immune function declines, change in ph and microbiome changes lead to excessive tartar thus to receeding gums. Tartar and harmful microbes get deep under the gums and if immune function along with any other systemic issue is not picking up and the person itself is not keeping things clean one will find himself in a situation that can hardly be reversed.

My plan will be to get this one unfortunate deep cleaning that i tryed to avoid realy bad. From there i'll try to do what i can to clean and heal as good as possible. I'll try to do as realneat linked with hsi video to use baking soda/hydrogen peroxide to keep tartar at bay till the gums properly sealed back atleast along with bcp157. Between meals i might use calcium/xylitol/hydroappaxit inbetween for remineralization (not sure of using small amounts of fluoride here and there) and i'll add lowdose vitamin k2-mk4.
I will also incoorporate gum massages and red light. Not sure about oil pulling but i might revisit it.

These things didnt resolve much in the past but my baseline health has much improved since then and i think once i get rid of the deep tartar i can jumpstart the long overdue healing proccess. The systemic antifungal protocol has realy made me come back to life more and more and some teeth seem to get whiter again.

 

[RealNeat]

Thanks alot. Isn't calciumhydroxide kinda ... harsh?

I still have troubles making sense on how to tackle this in general yet i have not lost hope in saving and healing my teeth and gums (or my body i general).

My understanding thus far is that for w/e reason (toxins, malnutrition, infection etc.) will lead to a persons natural capability to not maintain the basic integrity in their mouth. Energy (Nad+) declines and/or immune function declines, change in ph and microbiome changes lead to excessive tartar thus to receeding gums. Tartar and harmful microbes get deep under the gums and if immune function along with any other systemic issue is not picking up and the person itself is not keeping things clean one will find himself in a situation that can hardly be reversed.

My plan will be to get this one unfortunate deep cleaning that i tryed to avoid realy bad. From there i'll try to do what i can to clean and heal as good as possible. I'll try to do as realneat linked with hsi video to use baking soda/hydrogen peroxide to keep tartar at bay till the gums properly sealed back atleast along with bcp157. Between meals i might use calcium/xylitol/hydroappaxit inbetween for remineralization (not sure of using small amounts of fluoride here and there) and i'll add lowdose vitamin k2-mk4.
I will also incoorporate gum massages and red light. mctoil/coconut oil pulling didnt do mcuh for me in the past but i might revisit it.

These things didnt resolve much in the past but my baseline health has much improved since then and i think once i get rid of the deep tartar i can jumpstart the long overdue healing proccess. The systemic antifungal protocol has realy made me come back to life more and more and some teeth seem to get whiter again.

All you said is true and technically sound but I want to make it really simple for people. For a majority of people who eat wholesome food and have a decent digestion the major factor in keeping disease free in the mouth is to brush often while being gentle around the gum line. Don't leave food residue in the mouth.


This could mean brushing 5+ times a day, with or without paste or abrasives. If your teeth start to ache or hurt that's a sign you are damaging your enamel so back off.

But really just keep your mouth free of food debris and that would solve most of people's issues.

 

[Truth]

@Ben. Hi Ben, where are you living? I have experienced a drastic increase in the feeling of strength and resistance of my teeth and gums, by eating ripe soursop, gums that had become looser, too loose the previous months by drinking mostly raw milk

 

[Ben.]

All you said is true and technically sound but I want to make it really simple for people. For a majority of people who eat wholesome food and have a decent digestion the major factor in keeping disease free in the mouth is to brush often while being gentle around the gum line. Don't leave food residue in the mouth.


This could mean brushing 5+ times a day, with or without paste or abrasives. If your teeth start to ache or hurt that's a sign you are damaging your enamel so back off.

But really just keep your mouth free of food debris and that would solve most of people's issues.

The receeding was realy bad within a insanely short amount of time. All teeth are so exposed simple foods/meals will lead to food being stuck and no toothbrush in this world will get it out, nor does flossing. And this is after every meal, every snack. I would need to reorganize my entire day to keep food particles out of the pockets. The waterpik seemed to remove food paticles the best but i feel like its not good for the gums ...

@Ben. Hi Ben, where are you living? I have experienced a drastic increase in the feeling of strength and resistance of my teeth and gums, by eating ripe soursop, gums that had become looser, too loose the previous months by drinking mostly raw milk

I live in europe, austria.

 

[RealNeat]

The receeding was realy bad within a insanely short amount of time. All teeth are so exposed simple foods/meals will lead to food being stuck and no toothbrush in this world will get it out, nor does flossing. And this is after every meal, every snack. I would need to reorganize my entire day to keep food particles out of the pockets. The waterpik seemed to remove food paticles the best but i feel like its not good for the gums ...



I live in europe, austria.

I know you are iffy about calcium therapy institute and I have my opinions too but it seems for gumline issues and pocketa it's the most effective, next to eliminating the tartar and brushing techniques that cause recession