Very severe chronic insomnia, how to violentely stop HPA axis.

[Schizophonia]

It's been a year since I had to sleep an average of 3 hours per night, these weeks I've basically been sleeping 7/8 hours per night...every other night, the other being a systematic sleepless night.
Unable to nap, I can “relax” but not to the point where I actually doze off and fade into sleep.
I feel quite wired, I'm obsessive and I can no longer immerse myself in "abstract imagination".

This is DESTROYING my life, if this doesn't change within a week or two I'm going to kill myself, really.

Benzodiazepines and anything gabaergic in general (including allopregnolone) help but only at very high doses.
But above all it targets "on the side", I can feel my body relaxing more, my anxiety decreasing etc etc but the fundamental problem is still there.

The only thing that worked was Mirtzapine, in 30 minutes I felt like when I was a child and I was struggling, "intoxicated" by fatigue and relaxation, and I fell asleep very easily (and above all intuitively!) a few minutes.
Except that it only worked for one night, from the second it was already not very effective then the medication simply stopped working, my body told me (NO SON OF A b****) and I became crazy again furious obsetional insomniac.

No dietary intervention has seemed to be meaningful at the moment, I don't know what to do anymore

 

[TheSir]

Unfortunately you might be dealing with issues that take longer than a week or two to fix. Brain fog, insomnia, wiredness and obsessions each are symptoms of mercury toxicity. Copper might be involved too. How many symptoms can you recognize from this list:

· Anxiety
· Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)
· Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
· Blood in the Urine
· Blushing
· Borderline Personality Disorder
· "Brain Fog"
· Bruising, Easy (and other vitamin C deficiency diseases as mercury displaces vitamin C)
· Bulimia
· Calcium, Elevated Blood
· Cancer
· Chronic Fatigue
· Circadian Rhythm, Shifted (inability to sleep on a normal schedule)
· Colitis
· Constipation
· Crohn's Disease
· Dementia
· Depression
· Dermatitis
· Discouragement
· Dizziness (loss of equilibrium)
· Dysbiosis
· Elevated Homocysteine (increases risk of heart disease)
· Endocrine-Related Issues
· Environmental Illness
· Enlarged Prostate (Elevated DHT)
· Fatigue
· Flatulence (gas)
· Floaters In the Eyes
· Fibromyalgia
· Grinding Teeth While Sleeping (Bruxism)
· Gastritis
· Hair loss (Balding—Elevated DHT)
· Headaches
· Heart Arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat)
· Heart Disease (see Arterial Sclerosis)
· High Cholesterol
· Hypoglycemia
· Hyperglycemia
· Hyperacusis (sensitivity to certain sounds)
· Hypothyroidism
· Immune Suppression (weak immune system leading to frequent general illness or numerous opportunistic infections)
· Insomnia
· Iodine Deficiency
· Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)
· Juvenile Arthritis
· Kidney Damage
· Leaky Gut Syndrome
· Learning Disabilities
· Loss of Self-Control
· Lupus Erythematosus
· Magnesium, Deficiency
· Manic Depressive Disorder
· Memory Loss, Short-Term
· Mole Formation (especially on the neck, underarms, inner thighs, and feet)
· Mood Swings
· Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS)
· Multiple Sclerosis
· Nausea and Vomiting
· Nervousness
· Numbness and tingling,Oily Skin (Elevated DHT)
· Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
· Outbursts of Anger
· Pain In Limbs
· Panic attacks
· Phobias, General
· Photophobia (sensitivity to light from weak iris response)
· Rashes
· Rheumatoid Arthritis
· Salivating, Excessive
· Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorders
· Sciatica
· Self Esteem, Lack of
· Shyness
· Sleep Disorders
· Social Separation/Isolation
· Suicidal Thoughts
· Spider Veins
· Selenium Deficiency
· Thyroid Disorders
· Timidity
· Tinnitus (Ringing In the Ears)
· Tremors
· Vision, Loss Of Peripheral vision
· Vitamin C Deficiency
· Weakness, Muscle
· Weight Gain
· White Coating On the Tongue
· Yeast Syndrome/Candida
· Zinc Deficiency

At the very least, I would strongly advice getting a hair mineral analysis done. That's pretty much the only way to know for sure what's going on within your cells, as well as what kind of toxicities and deficiencies you are dealing with. In the meanwhile, have you tried large doses of glycine, magnesium, lecitihin, zinc?

 

[Jonk]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I've struggled a lot with sleep myself but that's mainly because of back pain. The back pain in itself is almost a blessing in disguise because it gave me something concrete to work from, although it led me in all sorts of directions which all basically comes back to restoring proper utilization of energy. Do you have any other possible underlying problems? Do you know if you're hypothyroid? Major digestive issues? Also have you read this Peat article? - Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease

 

[Schizophonia]

Unfortunately you might be dealing with issues that take longer than a week or two to fix. Brain fog, insomnia, wiredness and obsessions each are symptoms of mercury toxicity. Copper might be involved too. How many symptoms can you recognize from this list:

Anxiety

In the sense of intrusive ideas, yes, clearly.
I don't feel "stressed" but my heart is beating faster and I feel hot.

· Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)
· Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)

No, my attention is correct, even after insomnia and the loss of conition that accompanies it.

· Blood in the Urine

No

· Blushing

No

· Borderline Personality Disorder

I don't know this disorder well, I can't self-diagnose it, but it corresponds fairly well to my mental problems.

· "Brain Fog"

Sometime

· Bruising, Easy (and other vitamin C deficiency diseases as mercury displaces vitamin C)

No

· Bulimia

No, it's the opposite.

· Calcium, Elevated Blood

I dont know

· Cancer

I hope no :/

· Chronic Fatigue

No, quite the opposite. (hypomania)

· Circadian Rhythm, Shifted (inability to sleep on a normal schedule)

YES

· Colitis
· Constipation

No, variable, but overall ok.

· Crohn's Disease

No

· Dementia

I have some memory loss, but it seems to be just lack of sleep itself.

· Depression

Good guestion..

· Dermatitis

No

· Discouragement

I ruminate a lot yes

· Dizziness (loss of equilibrium)

No

· Dysbiosis

No

· Elevated Homocysteine (increases risk of heart disease)

Idk

· Endocrine-Related Issues

No

· Environmental Illness

I didn't understand

· Enlarged Prostate (Elevated DHT)

No, but I often go urinating if I haven't slept well, probably cortisol or something like that.

· Fatigue

No, quite the opposite

· Flatulence (gas)

Sometime

· Floaters In the Eyes

No

· Fibromyalgia

No

· Grinding Teeth While Sleeping (Bruxism)

Idk

· Gastritis

No

· Hair loss (Balding—Elevated DHT)

No

· Headaches

No

· Heart Arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat)

Sometimes, if my lack of sleep is really significant I can feel a heart abnormality, especially if I do fitness.

· Heart Disease (see Arterial Sclerosis)

Idk

· High Cholesterol

Idk

· Hypoglycemia
· Hyperglycemia

My blood sugar seems ok, to very good.

· Hyperacusis (sensitivity to certain sounds)

No

· Hypothyroidism

Idk

· Immune Suppression (weak immune system leading to frequent general illness or numerous opportunistic infections)

No, att all

· Insomnia

Yes

· Iodine Deficiency

Idk

· Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)

No

· Juvenile Arthritis

No

· Kidney Damage

Idk

· Leaky Gut Syndrome

Good question, I may feel brain fog if I consume excess milk or legumes.

· Learning Disabilities
· Loss of Self-Control

YES

· Lupus Erythematosus

Probably not

· Magnesium, Deficiency

No

· Manic Depressive Disorder

prabably not

· Memory Loss, Short-Term

yes

· Mole Formation (especially on the neck, underarms, inner thighs, and feet)

no

· Mood Swings

yes

· Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS)

idk

· Multiple Sclerosis

no

· Nausea and Vomiting

no

· Nervousness

yes

· Numbness and tingling,Oily Skin (Elevated DHT)

no

· Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)

yes

· Outbursts of Anger

YES

· Pain In Limbs

no

· Panic attacks

no

· Phobias, General

no

· Photophobia (sensitivity to light from weak iris response)

no

· Rashes

no

· Rheumatoid Arthritis

no

· Salivating, Excessive

quite

· Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorders

No, i dont have psychotic signs

· Sciatica

no

· Self Esteem, Lack of

yes

· Shyness

no

· Sleep Disorders

yes

· Social Separation/Isolation

yes

· Suicidal Thoughts

variable

· Spider Veins

no

· Selenium Deficiency

no

· Thyroid Disorders

idk

· Timidity

no,

· Tinnitus (Ringing In the Ears)

no

· Tremors

no

· Vision, Loss Of Peripheral vision

no

· Vitamin C Deficiency

probably not

· Weakness, Muscle

no

· Weight Gain

no

· White Coating On the Tongue

yes

· Yeast Syndrome/Candida

idk

· Zinc Deficiency

idk

At the very least, I would strongly advice getting a hair mineral analysis done. That's pretty much the only way to know for sure what's going on within your cells, as well as what kind of toxicities and deficiencies you are dealing with. In the meanwhile, have you tried large doses of glycine, magnesium, lecitihin, zinc?

Magnesium doesn't change anything, gelatin doesn't change much either.
I haven't tried zinc.

 

[mostlylurking]

It's been a year since I had to sleep an average of 3 hours per night, these weeks I've basically been sleeping 7/8 hours per night...every other night, the other being a systematic sleepless night.
Unable to nap, I can “relax” but not to the point where I actually doze off and fade into sleep.
I feel quite wired, I'm obsessive and I can no longer immerse myself in "abstract imagination".

This is DESTROYING my life, if this doesn't change within a week or two I'm going to kill myself, really.

Benzodiazepines and anything gabaergic in general (including allopregnolone) help but only at very high doses.
But above all it targets "on the side", I can feel my body relaxing more, my anxiety decreasing etc etc but the fundamental problem is still there.

The only thing that worked was Mirtzapine, in 30 minutes I felt like when I was a child and I was struggling, "intoxicated" by fatigue and relaxation, and I fell asleep very easily (and above all intuitively!) a few minutes.
Except that it only worked for one night, from the second it was already not very effective then the medication simply stopped working, my body told me (NO SON OF A b****) and I became crazy again furious obsetional insomniac.

No dietary intervention has seemed to be meaningful at the moment, I don't know what to do anymore

I've found that high dose thiamine + magnesium glycinate to be very helpful. Thiamine should be taken no later than 3:00pm or it can interfere with sleep; if taken before 3:00pm, it improves sleep. Magnesium is relaxing and it stops the muscle spasms.
suggested reading:

Depression, Anxiety, and the Chronically Hypoxic Brain - Hormones Matter

Abnormal thoughts, emotions and all forms of mental activity are produced by electrochemical reactions that are exaggerated by a mild degree of hypoxia or pseudo-hypoxia.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I ruminate a lot yes

circular thinking - can't turn it off?

No, but I often go urinating if I haven't slept well, probably cortisol or something like that.

Cortisol is lowered by magnesium.

Magnesium doesn't change anything

You said you have tried it, but for how long and how much?
info on magnesium:

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

· Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)

yes

I used to have this plus non stop circular thinking. I don't anymore. I think I recovered via high dose thiamine hcl + magnesium (+ some other b vitamins, not high dose). I have mercury poisoning; the OCD and circular thinking were a real problem, along with high anxiety and insomnia.

 

[Jonk]

Also probably the quickest way for me to improve sleep (and basically all my other symptoms) is to "flush out" my intestines. Porridge with 1/2 cup of wheat bran once or twice a day for maybe a week is the most reliable for me. It can however be irritating to the intestines so it's not something I would do excessively, but more of a reset when my transit time is slow (like after a party with alcohol consumption).

 

[Jonk]

Sorry for spamming, but also might be worth trying to make up a hypothesis why the Mirtzapine worked. Some threads on the forum regarding Mirtzapine: Mirtazapine Increases T4-T3 Conversion, Possible Antidepressant Mechanism - Increases t4-t3 conversion. I guess keeping the intestine clean might have a similar effect if endotoxin is what's causing poor liver function hence poor t4-t3 conversion.

 

[Peater]

@Schizophonia have you tried cyproheptadine? I know it's only an antihistamine but it has powerful sedation abilities without being a true psychoactive.

There's also the humble grated carrot with vinegar that could flush out estrogen and bile.

I would also try TUDCA as well, it's cheap, easy to get hold of and used by people all over the world to give the liver a clean up. Although remember that it's not advised to drink while talking it or for a day or two afterwards.

 

[Funnywhensunny]

I have the same problem. I have had this since I can remember and even as a toddler. Do you know when your issue began? I have tried every solution imaginable. The only thing that is truly helpful for me, is Trazadone (25 mg four times over the course of an evening,) Cannabis, and low-dose naltrexone. I have had a lot of testing done, and no one can seem to figure this out… A lot of data with no solutions.
At one point I had an enlarged pituitary. I don’t know if that is related, and/or my mother used drugs when I was in utero. I thought that might have something to do with it. Perhaps my nervous system did not develop properly? I find that my brain does not shut off, I cannot nap, and if I do fall asleep, it is short lived.
Have you been tested for POTS? That’s the best answer. I have been able to find, but salting my water, and even trying Saline infusions does not resolve the issue.

 

[mostlylurking]

I have the same problem. I have had this since I can remember and even as a toddler. Do you know when your issue began? I have tried every solution imaginable. The only thing that is truly helpful for me, is Trazadone (25 mg four times over the course of an evening,) Cannabis, and low-dose naltrexone. I have had a lot of testing done, and no one can seem to figure this out… A lot of data with no solutions.
At one point I had an enlarged pituitary. I don’t know if that is related, and/or my mother used drugs when I was in utero. I thought that might have something to do with it. Perhaps my nervous system did not develop properly? I find that my brain does not shut off, I cannot nap, and if I do fall asleep, it is short lived.
Have you been tested for POTS? That’s the best answer. I have been able to find, but salting my water, and even trying Saline infusions does not resolve the issue.

Thiamine deficiency/functional blockage is implicated in POTS.

The Thiamine Connection: From POTS to Wernicke's and Everything in Between - Hormones Matter

My daughter was suffering from a long term chronic mild to moderate thiamine deficiency and my grandmother was experiencing a severe acute deficiency.

www.hormonesmatter.com

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency

Thiamine or vitamin B1 is an essential, water-soluble vitamin required for mitochondrial energetics—the production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). It is a critical and rate-limiting cofactor to multiple enzymes involved in this process, including ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[PopSocket]

It's been a year since I had to sleep an average of 3 hours per night, these weeks I've basically been sleeping 7/8 hours per night...every other night, the other being a systematic sleepless night.
Unable to nap, I can “relax” but not to the point where I actually doze off and fade into sleep.

I am so sorry to hear this, How did this began ? Was there a stressful event you went through prior to the Insomnia ? Or you were doing something with your sleep ?

 

[Ainaga]

It's been a year since I had to sleep an average of 3 hours per night, these weeks I've basically been sleeping 7/8 hours per night...every other night, the other being a systematic sleepless night.
Unable to nap, I can “relax” but not to the point where I actually doze off and fade into sleep.
I feel quite wired, I'm obsessive and I can no longer immerse myself in "abstract imagination".

This is DESTROYING my life, if this doesn't change within a week or two I'm going to kill myself, really.

Benzodiazepines and anything gabaergic in general (including allopregnolone) help but only at very high doses.
But above all it targets "on the side", I can feel my body relaxing more, my anxiety decreasing etc etc but the fundamental problem is still there.

The only thing that worked was Mirtzapine, in 30 minutes I felt like when I was a child and I was struggling, "intoxicated" by fatigue and relaxation, and I fell asleep very easily (and above all intuitively!) a few minutes.
Except that it only worked for one night, from the second it was already not very effective then the medication simply stopped working, my body told me (NO SON OF A b****) and I became crazy again furious obsetional insomniac.

No dietary intervention has seemed to be meaningful at the moment, I don't know what to do anymore

i had the same problem, the 3am thing, severely for at least 5 years. i wish i had a better recommendation, but cannabis has helped me. i have always been reluctant to use it, i find no special benefit in being high, and experience some detriment, in lung function for example. but i gave it a shot, and so far it's put me into full remission in so far as insomnia is concerned. and because i sleep soundly now (8 full hours every day) all my other health issues have resolved effortlessly. unfortunately, you need to make a habit of it to get this particular effect, at least for me this has been the case. and as far as i am concerned, i want to use it for another say six months, to see what six months of good sleep feels like and does to me. so far one month of good sleep has done nothing short of wonders. this is something you can look forward to: once you have experience ongoing insomnia, regaining the ability to sleep is going to make you very powerful and capable.

 

[Runenight201]

i had the same problem, the 3am thing, severely for at least 5 years. i wish i had a better recommendation, but cannabis has helped me. i have always been reluctant to use it, i find no special benefit in being high, and experience some detriment, in lung function for example. but i gave it a shot, and so far it's put me into full remission in so far as insomnia is concerned. and because i sleep soundly now (8 full hours every day) all my other health issues have resolved effortlessly. unfortunately, you need to make a habit of it to get this particular effect, at least for me this has been the case. and as far as i am concerned, i want to use it for another say six months, to see what six months of good sleep feels like and does to me. so far one month of good sleep has done nothing short of wonders. this is something you can look forward to: once you have experience ongoing insomnia, regaining the ability to sleep is going to make you very powerful and capable.

I also have sleep issues/insomnia and cannabis makes me go psychotic. It disrupts my ability to nasal breathe and I get extreme paranoia usually followed by some disruptions in my ability to process visual information.

 

[Schizophonia]

Update: I started Mirtazapine again and as expected it only worked for ONE NIGHT. And I just had a sleepless night right now.

 

[Schizophonia]

I also have sleep issues/insomnia and cannabis makes me go psychotic. It disrupts my ability to nasal breathe and I get extreme paranoia usually followed by some disruptions in my ability to process visual information.

Ditto

i had the same problem, the 3am thing, severely for at least 5 years. i wish i had a better recommendation, but cannabis has helped me. i have always been reluctant to use it, i find no special benefit in being high, and experience some detriment, in lung function for example. but i gave it a shot, and so far it's put me into full remission in so far as insomnia is concerned. and because i sleep soundly now (8 full hours every day) all my other health issues have resolved effortlessly. unfortunately, you need to make a habit of it to get this particular effect, at least for me this has been the case. and as far as i am concerned, i want to use it for another say six months, to see what six months of good sleep feels like and does to me. so far one month of good sleep has done nothing short of wonders. this is something you can look forward to: once you have experience ongoing insomnia, regaining the ability to sleep is going to make you very powerful and capable.

Cannabis stimulâtes me to much, or at least doesn’t work for sleep.

@Schizophonia have you tried cyproheptadine? I know it's only an antihistamine but it has powerful sedation abilities without being a true psychoactive.

There's also the humble grated carrot with vinegar that could flush out estrogen and bile.

I would also try TUDCA as well, it's cheap, easy to get hold of and used by people all over the world to give the liver a clean up. Although remember that it's not advised to drink while talking it or for a day or two afterwards.

Yes, Cypro doesn’t work

 

[Schizophonia]

Mirtazapine work only one day.
Antihistamine works several days at hogh dosages.
Cannabis doesn’t works at all.
Cigarettes : Ditto.
Allopregnenolone : Ditto.

The only thing thats works is medium dosages of benzodiazepines (Xanax works quite well).

 

[maillol]

I've had the same thing. If you can get a hemoglobin meter I think you'd find it useful. Mine is always low when I'm sleeping badly. Blood thinning substances seem to make my sleep worse - vitamine E, aspirin, cinnamon, garlic etc. K1 helps a bit but B12 really helps.

I also think copper might help but I haven't tried it long enough to recommend it.

 

[cs3000]

@Schizophonia You could try sodium bicarbonate, curious if 3grams in water 1-2 hours before bed works.
combined with stopping all fruit/vegetable intake by late afternoon if you eat this

 

[Regina]

It's been a year since I had to sleep an average of 3 hours per night, these weeks I've basically been sleeping 7/8 hours per night...every other night, the other being a systematic sleepless night.
Unable to nap, I can “relax” but not to the point where I actually doze off and fade into sleep.
I feel quite wired, I'm obsessive and I can no longer immerse myself in "abstract imagination".

This is DESTROYING my life, if this doesn't change within a week or two I'm going to kill myself, really.

Benzodiazepines and anything gabaergic in general (including allopregnolone) help but only at very high doses.
But above all it targets "on the side", I can feel my body relaxing more, my anxiety decreasing etc etc but the fundamental problem is still there.

The only thing that worked was Mirtzapine, in 30 minutes I felt like when I was a child and I was struggling, "intoxicated" by fatigue and relaxation, and I fell asleep very easily (and above all intuitively!) a few minutes.
Except that it only worked for one night, from the second it was already not very effective then the medication simply stopped working, my body told me (NO SON OF A b****) and I became crazy again furious obsetional insomniac.

No dietary intervention has seemed to be meaningful at the moment, I don't know what to do anymore

Inosine worked for me.
I don't know why.
When I first started Peating, I still struggled with sleep issues: restless and having to get up to pee several times through the night.

I think it squelched and reset adrenaline for me. Then everything else worked.

btw, it only took a few doses. I think it was 3 evenings in a row, I swallowed 1 gram or so of the powder. I haven;t had to take any more.

 

[Schizophonia]

This has been the third sleepless night in a week, I feel like I have dementia, Alzheimer's or something.
I would be ready to cut my own **** with a chopper if it guaranteed to eliminate my insomnia.