VoS Uncoupling Thread

[visionofstrength]

You're clearly excited about these things. When I withhold my judgment, I wanna be your follower. I don't see, doesn't mean it's not there. I need vision.

Yes, I agree. I've said a few times here that I feel like I'm failing to communicate this well. It's clearly a work in progress, at best. All these questions, critiques, and explanations from those more knowledgable really help me to go forward. When I look back on the previous two weeks, even, there's been so much progress, but I don't know how much more is needed until we have a vision, as you say.

Thanks!

 

[visionofstrength]

It's a MIRACLE!

This thread is about having a high metabolic rate, and being thin naturally, really without trying, while you eat everything you want! That is what happens, amazingly, with Peat's many "uncouplers".

If this was so amazingly, miraculously easy as you say it is, then everyone on here would be miraculously thin.

I would respectfully ask if anyone on here actually does this? Has anyone here had their CO2 measured? Or gone in a metabolic chamber to see what their metabolism is?

If you have, and you have a CO2 level of 6%, then I can assure you, you are miraculously thin!

Firstly, your quote above doesn't stipulate this - it just says that if you take Peat's uncouplers you miraculously lose weight. I'd guess 90% of people who read this site often take all of the things you listed as uncouplers (except the inhaled CO2), and weight is a major issue for large amounts of people here, especially stomach fat.

Secondly, your comment about 6% CO2 is largely conjecture unless you have done some large-scale studies on this that we are not aware of.

Yes, you're right. When I announced the thread as Peat's discovery of a weight-loss miracle, I meant that literally. I think this is new, even for Peat, and I don't know that anyone on here has ever done small frequent doses of "uncouplers" (though a more Peatian term is metabolic "field stabilizer" as milklove notes).

It isn't at all fair to require large-scale studies of anything Peatian, since the pharma companies that fund such studies are corrupt and immoral. They would never fund such a study.

That said, there were a number of largish-scale studies in Russia in the 60s, I think, conducted by Buteyko, and those studies claimed that 6% CO2 was the magic number for achieving metabolic health. That obesity was correlated to CO2 levels below that.

But yes, this is entirely based on my own experience, since when I can achieve 6% or greater I have a kind of metabolism that has been described in legend as that of the high-altitude yogis. Now I knew I could do something like this at high-altitude. What's amazing for me now is, I'm a lowlander! A lowlander yogi! Crazy cool! Really.

And all of you can be a yogi, too, I think. With Peat's newer strategies for frequent small doses of uncouplers or "field stabilizers" it's actually gotten pretty easy. (I mean, I still think breathing CO2 is easy, but that's just me.)

 

[visionofstrength]

I did not recommend butter and aspirin. Remember aspirin blocks beta-oxidation in the first place.

What's your view of dosing uncouplers? and therapeutic windows? For example, I take one gram of aspirin on waking up, and then 325 mg roughly every two hours or so, trying to keep within the optimal plasma concentration shown here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... p00344.pdf

Each of Peat's "uncouplers" or "redox balancers" may have a similar therapeutic window? And too much may not be a good thing? Users of DNP report that it, too, has a safe minimal effective dose, though I've not used it. Consider DHEA, for example. which Peat thinks should be limited to only 5mg in a dose! My milligram scale barely registers 5 mg!

But anecdotally, just a 5 mg speck of DHEA in combination with thyroid and progesterone, as Peat suggests, seems to be a potent uncoupler!

[Edit: there may be a therapeutic window for the saturated fatty acid uncouplers, like butyric acid in butter. Weston A. Price reported that teaspoon amounts of butter oil improved the health of his patients greatly. Peat advises teaspoon amounts of coconut oil.]

This is really cool! How much DHEA do you take? And where do you get it from?

I posted all the small, frequent doses of everything above. DHEA especially is a very small amount - only 5 mg! Must be in combination with progesterone and thyroid to get the benefit of the therapeutic window! I get it from any of the primary sources on toxinless.com.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Could you give us an example of your daily routine-diet, aspirin/supplements, exercise, etc? Sorry, I'm just curious and a little confused since I don't really know much about dinitrophenol or CO2. Do you do the bag breathing at all?

I do a kind of bag breathing, where I introduce a very fine stream of CO2 into a mask that I'm breathing in. This kind of bag breathing is much safer, because you never get too hypoxic, and you can continue it as long as you like, even while you sleep!

I also use 1/4 cup of activated charcoal every other night.

Other than that, I just do (I think) everything that Peat seems to say that he does himself.

For a diet that minimizes intestinal inflammation and unsaturated fat, I use honey, sugar and cocoa butter, (steady snacking). These work for me, but may not for you? I supplement with about 3 ounces of liver and a glass of orange juice.

For protein that does not have too much methionine and tryptophan, I use nonfat milk and nonfat cottage cheese with salt to taste (steady snacking). These just so happen to work for me, but may not for you?

For anti-inflammatory "uncouplers" I use all of these every few hours or so: vitamin E (400 mg), aspirin (325 mg), niacinamide (250mg), thiamine (50 mg), vitamins K2 and D3 (1 or 2 drops), thyroid (half grain Thyroid-S), progesterone (1 drop Progest-E), DHEA (5 mg), coffee at 4X strength mixed with nonfat milk (steady sipping), magnesium water (2 ounces, recipe here: http://www.afibbers.org/Wallerwater.pdf), and a teaspoon of coconut and MCT oil mixed 50/50.

But when waking up, I take a triple dose of aspirin (1 gram) and a double dose of thyroid (1 grain). I do this to get the plasma concentration up quickly because Peat thinks stress is greatest at night, from dark and hunger.

Hope this helps? I'm sorry if you were expecting more? Peat's ideas are so simple, they seem too good to be true. But then you try it! And wow, is life good!

[Edit: with apologies to milklove who turned me on to this, I forgot to say I use two 250W incandescent bulbs for redlight therapy, as close to my skin as is comfortable and not too hot.]

WOW! This is fascinating and inspiring. I really need to get my energy and strength up and I don't have a lot of time to exercise so I would love to get those results. I have lots of questions if you don't mind.

Can you explain how you do the Co2 breathing with a mask? Do you buy a tank and use a regulator? Where do you get that?
I'm currently taking cynomel (t3), so how much does that equate to when you say you take a half grain of thyroid?
And do you aim for the 80-100 grams of protein recommended? Or do you just eat for appetite?

When you mention the coffee at 4x the strength......is that 1 cup of coffee every few hours? Or do you just take some sips every few hours? It seems like that much coffee might make digestion TOO fast, haha
But maybe the charcoal compensates for that because I know it can be constipating. How far apart to you take the charcoal from other supplements/food?
Thanks so much for posting!

 

[John Eels]

What's a good ratio of carbs and fats as an energy source if the goal is a steady supply of T3 (especially through the night)? So far, I've focused almost exclusively on carbs.

 

[visionofstrength]

What's a good ratio of carbs and fats as an energy source if the goal is a steady supply of T3 (especially through the night)? So far, I've focused almost exclusively on carbs.

I've not seen Peat write about a ratio of fructose to saturated fat. but I infer that he himself eats about a 6:1 ratio by weight (a kilogram of oranges juiced/3 teaspoons of coconut oil).

[Edit: sorry make that 11:1, because I see he says that 150 grams of sugar a day would not be unusual for him].

Waiting too long between snacks or meals may deplete glycogen, which in turn can put cellular metabolism into lactate stress. Nighttime is especially stressful. Play most of your sugar and fat cards before bed.

 

[John Eels]

Is there maybe even a considerable advantage of fat over sugar: Thyroid function and saturated fat. (not that I really understand anything of what he writes. I just bring conflicting information to attention).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your other posts. I suggest for the forum members to test your ideas, a bullet point guideline like the following would be helpful.

Uncoupling for dummies:

• Concept: Timing is important, e. g. morning vs. evening
• Concept Low dose is superior to one big dose
• Aspirin: 1g, and then a third of it every two hours or so --> uncoupling effect
• Thyroid/hormone combo: T3 (e. g. 5mcg), progesterone (1 drop) and DHEA (5mg) --> uncoupling effect.

 

[Philomath]

If I understand VoS correctly, reaching the uncoupled state is the goal and fat loss is a "fortunate" side effect. To Blossoms point, being thin shouldn't be the goal of Peating. The goal is to reach a higher mental and physical capacity.

To those members that have reached the "uncoupled" / "field stabilized" state, I ask the following:
Once you get there, do you need to continue with the "uncouplers" or just maintain sufficient levels of protein, glucose, vitamins and minerals, while keeping inflammation low?

If I understand Dr. Peat correctly, once you get "uncoupled", having sufficient levels of glucose with keep your CO2 levels where they need to be.

 

[visionofstrength]

Is there maybe even a considerable advantage of fat over sugar: Thyroid function and saturated fat. (not that I really understand anything of what he writes. I just bring conflicting information to attention).

I checked that blog post out, JE, thanks!

I do snack on cocoa butter and honey. With my high metabolic rate, I just feel I need a lot of condensed energy from the saturated fat, and Peat has lots of good things to say about saturated fats in cocoa butter and coconut oil.

IAnyway, I'm looking forward to your other posts. I suggest for the forum members to test your ideas, a bullet point guideline like the following would be helpful.

Uncoupling for dummies:

• Concept: Timing is important, e. g. morning vs. evening
• Concept Low dose is superior to one big dose
• Aspirin: 1g, and then a third of it every two hours or so --> uncoupling effect
• Thyroid/hormone combo: T3 (e. g. 5mcg), progesterone (1 drop) and DHEA (5mg) --> uncoupling effect.

Hey, great idea! I'll work on that. Can I use that bullet list? It looks good to me! Thanks!

 

[visionofstrength]

If I understand VoS correctly, reaching the uncoupled state is the goal and fat loss is a "fortunate" side effect. To Blossoms point, being thin shouldn't be the goal of Peating. The goal is to reach a higher mental and physical capacity.

To those members that have reached the "uncoupled" / "field stabilized" state, I ask the following:
Once you get there, do you need to continue with the "uncouplers" or just maintain sufficient levels of protein, glucose, vitamins and minerals, while keeping inflammation low?

If I understand Dr. Peat correctly, once you get "uncoupled", having sufficient levels of glucose with keep your CO2 levels where they need to be.

Yes, in our other Getting Ripped thread we talked about percentages of bodyfat. I think a reasonably easy goal for guys is to have a bodyfat% in the 8-12% range, and for girls, in the 12-16% range. But you really hurt yourself if you try to starve yourself or do crazy fad diets. Just uncouple your metabolism, and the bodyfat will take care of itself!

In my own case, even though I may have reached 6% CO2, it is a constant effort to keep it high. Stress, hyperventilation, gut irritation, prolonged hunger or darkness, a bad night of sleep, all these things and many more can knock CO2 levels down, and the frequent small doses of uncouplers can boost it up again (as can carbon dioxide therapy).

Next, I'd really like to achieve a higher level of up to 7% CO2, which is where mountain climbers can sometimes be.

 

[visionofstrength]

Can you explain how you do the Co2 breathing with a mask? Do you buy a tank and use a regulator? Where do you get that?

I'll PM the links to you. It's seems easy to me. You just adjust the regulator for a very slight stream of CO2 and hold the tube under your mask.

I'm currently taking cynomel (t3), so how much does that equate to when you say you take a half grain of thyroid? ['quote]
that would be a nibble of a cynomel, a quarter or less.

And do you aim for the 80-100 grams of protein recommended? Or do you just eat for appetite?

I think frequent snacking is the most important thing.

When you mention the coffee at 4x the strength......is that 1 cup of coffee every few hours? Or do you just take some sips every few hours? It seems like that much coffee might make digestion TOO fast, haha
But maybe the charcoal compensates for that because I know it can be constipating. How far apart to you take the charcoal from other supplements/food?
Thanks so much for posting!

Charcoal every other night before bed. This works for me, but may not for you? If the activated charcoal does work for you, any gut irritation that you had may be resolved.

Just keep the coffee as strong and as frequent as you are comfortable with, maybe increasing over time, and mix it with milk and be sure to have some fructose or sugar.

Please consider this!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3698477/

Treatment with caffeine and DNP also significantly increased oxidative metabolism and total metabolic rate compared with control. Caffeine similarly increased metabolism and mitochondrial content compared with DNP. ... We also demonstrate that caffeine or DNP increases mitochondrial content as well as enhances oxidative and total metabolism. These are the first observations that directly compare caffeine with DNP and demonstrate the effects of both treatments on glycolytic and oxidative metabolism in skeletal muscle cells.

...caffeine at 250 μM increased metabolic rate to a greater extent than caffeine at 500 μM

Small frequent doses! For comparison, there's 250 mg of caffeine in two Starbucks doubleshots.

 

[John Eels]

I tried the 1gm Aspirin (dissolved in one teaspoon baking soda) and espresso combo. I felt comfortably warm five minutes afterwards. (I'm more sensitive to cold then).

Sure, use the list. Now, keep on growing baby list.

 

[superhuman]

Could u take a screenshot of your average eating day in cronometer? And your height, weight and bodyfat %. Would mean the world.
In terms of reaching the uncoupled state, how do u know uve reached it? How do u feel it etc

 

[visionofstrength]

Could u take a screenshot of your average eating day in cronometer? And your height, weight and bodyfat %. Would mean the world.

This is sort of my base, for a completely sedentary day, but when I exercise I may increase this by 50-100%, as needed (except for the liver).

Takeaway: If you are hungry, please eat! Even if you are not hungry, please have a snack! You cannot have a raging high metabolism if you stop eating, and run out of glycogen or amino acids.

With that caveat - again, please eat! - I am posting this, not as a maximum, but for me, as a minimum!

 

[superhuman]

Thank you. Why cocoa butter and not chocolate instead?
Whats your weight, height etc? Just wanna check in terms of bmr etc
How do you feel the uncoupling?

 

[HDD]

Would temperature and pulse be a good measurement to use? What are yours throughout the day, VoS, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[visionofstrength]

In terms of reaching the uncoupled state, how do u know uve reached it? How do u feel it etc

Yes, this is a hard question, unless you have a CO2 sensor and measure end-tidal CO2 at rest. Then you know! High CO2 at rest == high metabolic rate!

As far as I can tell, body temperature is an unreliable substitute, but at a minimum you'd want your body temperature to be 99.4 or more on an oral thermometer, and 100.4. on the somewhat more reliable ear thermometer.

You can also sort of tell your uncoupling rate by the way you breathe. If without trying, just naturally, you breathe very slowly (40 breaths in five minutes), 1.5 seconds to inhale, 2 seconds to exhale, 4 second pause, then you likely have a high metabolism.

I mean, you can also feel a high metabolic rate as a serene state of "bliss" as Peat describes it. But it's hard to measure bliss?

 

[visionofstrength]

Thank you. Why cocoa butter and not chocolate instead?
Whats your weight, height etc? Just wanna check in terms of bmr etc
How do you feel the uncoupling?

yes, chocolate is fine. I can't find any that doesn't have lecithin in it, which I think is a PUFA.

I'm average height, average body type. I really almost never get on a scale. The weight takes care of itself. I do tape measure to calculate my bodyfat, military style, but I haven't gotten the calipers yet, as aquaman suggested, so I probably shouldn't brag about my BF% in case I'm wrong. I am not cut, but I'm pretty sure I would be if I just added an half hour of non-stress exercise, which I am inclined to do with winter coming! I'll do before-and-after pics for cutting, I promise.

 

[visionofstrength]

Would temperature and pulse be a good measurement to use? What are yours throughout the day, VoS, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't mention pulse, but mine is usually 80ish waking up, sometimes 90ish at night, and I really can't tell why. It has something to do with the uncoupling it seems, but I can't tell what the correlation might be. It has gone up a lot, since hypothyroid days, when it was mid 60s! I don't track it that much anymore but if you have ideas about pulse, I probably haven't thought of it and I'd love to hear!

 

[HDD]

I did some of the uncoupling ideas and felt really energetic yesterday. I was very productive. I felt hot and a little amped. I was sure temp and pulse would be good even though I didn't take it. So I wondered it I needed to be careful to not get too uncoupled. Lol I am a little older.