VoS Uncoupling Thread

[Jennifer]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

Quick question, is 12-16% body fat really safe for a girl? I know guys can get away with being ripped/cut, but I would think there's a reason why we girls are softer. I don't think the average girl would have a normal menstrual cycle/hormone production with such a low body fat percentage. Am I wrong?

 

[HDD]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I think the pulse and temperature would be part of it. If you were trying to heal from cancer,you would want to keep it at higher values, correct? Being too uncomfortable I think would be an indicator to back off if you were not needing specific healing.

 

[John Eels]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I did some of the uncoupling ideas and felt really energetic yesterday. I was very productive. I felt hot and a little amped. I was sure temp and pulse would be good even though I didn't take it. So I wondered it I needed to be careful to not get too uncoupled. Lol I am a little older.

I've later this afternoon tried 200mg Niacinamide with 300mg Thiamine. I haven't paid much attention to dosage. I'm surprised how small and more frequent dosages can make a difference.

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

Quick question, is 12-16% body fat really safe for a girl? I know guys can get away with being ripped/cut, but I would think there's a reason why we girls are softer. I don't think the average girl would have a normal menstrual cycle/hormone production with such a low body fat percentage. Am I wrong?

The science of adipose tissue, such as it is, seems to say that women have about 4% more visceral fat than men, which is deemed necessary for the health of the visceral organs. Men have 3% visceral fat, women 7%. For this reason, men really shouldn't cut to less than 3.5% or so, and women really shouldn't cut to less than 7.5% or so, without losing crucial visceral fat. Apart from that, the science of adipose tissue proposes, the sexes are equal!

So if the reasonably easy bodyfat range for men is 8 -12, then for women it's 4% more than that, or 12 - 16%.

But Hey! This all takes care of itself and you don't have to try, at all! A raging high metabolism is tantamount to a bodyfat percentage of whatever it is, ideally, for you. Your naked body will just look like the amazing human form is meant to be, think greek statues in antiquity? Or a painting by Peat! And the bodyfat % will just be a number.

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I think the pulse and temperature would be part of it. If you were trying to heal from cancer,you would want to keep it at higher values, correct? Being too uncomfortable I think would be an indicator to back off if you were not needing specific healing.

Right, and who would that be? 75% of the population is estimated to have undiagnosed cancer? 95% with metabolic disorders? Ebola is spreading? Step right up and get your healing while you can!

I need specific healing everytime I eat something that I shouldn't, which is more often than I care to admit.

I have had my pulse go over 100 many times, and I don't understand why? It's a little uncomfortable, but Peat says he advised his Dad to keep his pulse over 100 when his Dad was recovering from cataracts, and it seemed to work, or at least the cataracts got better. I can't quite figure the pulse thing out.

 

[Peata]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I hope to read from people who were 20 - 30# or more overweight that have success from this.

I've used vitamin E, aspirin, niacinamide, vitamins K and D, progesterone, coffee, thiamine, etc. alone or various combinations, some at regular intervals throughout day for a year and no weight loss. So maybe my uncoupler is all coupled out. But I hope to see success stories from others, as I said.

I still haven't give up hope on myself. At least I have stopped gaining and remained at my current high weight for going on 6 months. **That's better than the nonstop gaining I experienced the first part of the year. Carry on.

**Adding that I do not attribute the stop in gain to supplements or anything other than holding down my calories and/or getting excercise to burn some of them.

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I did some of the uncoupling ideas and felt really energetic yesterday. I was very productive. I felt hot and a little amped. I was sure temp and pulse would be good even though I didn't take it. So I wondered it I needed to be careful to not get too uncoupled. Lol I am a little older.

I've later this afternoon tried 200mg Niacinamide with 300mg Thiamine. I haven't paid much attention to dosage. I'm surprised how small and more frequent dosages can make a difference.

I've done two so far today, and now I'm off for my third. Cheers!

I do 50 mg thiamine each time, since Peat suggests it's tied closely to metabolism.

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I hope to read from people who were 20 - 30# or more overweight that have success from this.

I've used vitamin E, aspirin, niacinamide, vitamins K and D, progesterone, coffee, thiamine, etc. alone or various combinations, some at regular intervals throughout day for a year and no weight loss. So maybe my uncoupler is all coupled out. But I hope to see success stories from others, as I said.

I still haven't give up hope on myself. At least I have stopped gaining and remained at my current high weight for going on 6 months. **That's better than the nonstop gaining I experienced the first part of the year. Carry on.

**Adding that I do not attribute the stop in gain to supplements or anything other than holding down my calories and/or getting excercise to burn some of them.

Happy to hear you are staying steady! May I respectfully suggest you consider small, frequent doses, in combination? Here's why...

Peat's preferred uncouplers, thyroid, aspirin and coffee/caffeine, are very potent, even greater than DNP. But you just need to keep an optimal concentration (not too much!) in the blood plasma steady for as much of the day as you can. His uncouplers are very quickly metabolized, and their concentrations can be cut in half in 90 minutes or less. Same goes for niacinamide and progesterone.

You are certainly not uncoupled out! But you do also need to keep your glycogen and amino acids supplied, so you have something to metabolize. Steady snacking maybe?

 

[John Eels]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

tipsy on high metabolism.

 

[aquaman]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I've used vitamin E, aspirin, niacinamide, vitamins K and D, progesterone, coffee, thiamine, etc. alone or various combinations, some at regular intervals throughout day for a year and no weight loss. So maybe my uncoupler is all coupled out. But I hope to see success stories from others, as I said.

you need to wait ... for the MIRACLE !

I'm being purposely facetious here. I think this miracle chat is way over the top. Peat's ideas are normally so against this line of thinking ("miracle cures", and other hyperbole). And I also feel VoS you're putting words into Peat's mouth.

Why do you refer to them as "Peat's newer stratagies"? It's not like suddenly he has released info about these as the miracle for weight loss. Maybe the newsletters have more info that I havent' seen?? If not, you need to label your writing as your interpretations of Peat's ideas, which have not been tested amongst others.

He discusses specifically a few of your uncouplers on the last KMUD call (last week's), he only mentioned small frequent dosing for "major problems", such B1 in divided doses up to 300mg per day for cancer or diabetes treatment. He also says 10-20mg per day should be enough B1 for non-cancer/diabetes patients.

"B3 for major problems includin diabetes, arthritis, a lot of degenerative problems... taking 50-100mg several times per day of Niacinamide can control symptoms, reduce inflammation, protect the nerves and accelerate glucose oxidation and so on"

He didn't mention other supplements.

He also says "most supplements have impuritires which aren't good in the long run" and suggests short use of supplements.

 

[Peata]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

Happy to hear you are staying steady! May I respectfully suggest you consider small, frequent doses, in combination?

Done it.


[quote="visionofstrength"But you do also need to keep your glycogen and amino acids supplied, so you have something to metabolize. Steady snacking maybe?[/quote]

Done all that too.

Looks like I'll be the outlier in all this.

Thanks for the suggestions but it's really OK, I will get it worked out eventually.

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

Happy to hear you are staying steady! May I respectfully suggest you consider small, frequent doses, in combination?

Done it.

I hear you, but is it likely you could have known to manage your plasma concentration of several things in combination that change every 90 minutes, while at the same time keeping glycogen and amino acids supplied. You've got kids to watch, things to do, places to be.

I do believe it can happen when we are being purposeful, together. Purposeful action, as some on the forum like to call it. With purposeful action, together we can make a difference.

 

[taylor108]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

So-if you don't mind me asking, were you overweight before you found Peat? How effective have you found this to be-ie, how much have you leaned out using uncouplers? Sorry if that is too personal!

Also, I know you have basically answered this but let me clarify a little: so through the whole day you are steady snacking on coffee and nonfat milk with some OJ, cottage cheese and coconut mlk? Do you take aspirin with each of these coffee-milk meals?
Then-activated charcoal at night and C02 breathing with the mask?
Where do you find activated charcoal?
Do you eat any other foods-I mean, do you always eat like this or do you ever eat potatoes, rice, etc? Do you ever deviate from this plan completely?

Thank you for answering all of my previous questions! This is just such an interesting concept to me and I would love to hear more!

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

So-if you don't mind me asking, were you overweight before you found Peat? How effective have you found this to be-ie, how much have you leaned out using uncouplers? Sorry if that is too personal!

I was actually hypothyroid and underweight when I found Peat, which I think is much worse. Fat is protective. Once you start sliding into emaciated cachexia, your days are numbered. The uncoupling idea is new, to me, and to Peat, and I think to everyone on here, and I'm learning about it with the help of folks on here, who seem happy to point me in the right direction.

Also, I know you have basically answered this but let me clarify a little: so through the whole day you are steady snacking on coffee and nonfat milk with some OJ, cottage cheese and coconut mlk?

I am a steady snacker, yes. I use coconut oil (not coconut milk).

Do you take aspirin with each of these coffee-milk meals?

Yes, I try to make sure I have food in my stomach before taking the uncouplers, especially the caffeine.

Then-activated charcoal at night and C02 breathing with the mask?
Where do you find activated charcoal?

The thinking seems to be activated charcoal every other night. Peat has said he can't be confident of the purity enough to recommend a manufacturer. I use the sources on http://www.toxinless.com and I keep the charcoal sealed tightly (and make sure it arrives sealed)!

I breathe CO2 day and night, whenever I can. It's like mountain climbing.

Do you eat any other foods-I mean, do you always eat like this or do you ever eat potatoes, rice, etc? Do you ever deviate from this plan completely?

Thank you for answering all of my previous questions! This is just such an interesting concept to me and I would love to hear more!

I do deviate quite a bit. And when I do, I'm lucky with gut irritation, until I'm not! Fortunately, as my metabolic rate goes higher, I seem more and more to want only foods and drinks that are good for me. Maybe it's true that, to paraphrase milklove, there are no bad choices, only people making choices with bad metabolisms. :P

 

[lexis]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

A liver massage to activate the liver

http://www.betterhealthmassage.jp/liver-english.html

 

[aquaman]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I was actually hypothyroid and underweight when I found Peat, which I think is much worse.

This makes this thread (and a lot of your previous posts in other threads) even more baffling then.

Where does your theory of miracle weight loss come from if you haven't lost weight through this?

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

I think this miracle chat is way over the top. Peat's ideas are normally so against this line of thinking ("miracle cures", and other hyperbole). And I also feel VoS you're putting words into Peat's mouth.

Why do you refer to them as "Peat's newer stratagies"? It's not like suddenly he has released info about these as the miracle for weight loss. Maybe the newsletters have more info that I havent' seen?? If not, you need to label your writing as your interpretations of Peat's ideas, which have not been tested amongst others.
...

I was actually hypothyroid and underweight when I found Peat, which I think is much worse.

This makes this thread (and a lot of your previous posts in other threads) even more baffling then.

Where does your theory of miracle weight loss come from if you haven't lost weight through this?

The first post in the thread opens with the study of mitochondrial uncouplers in weight loss? That much has been clear, as it turns out, since the 30s: DNP really is the miracle weight loss drug, due to its action as a mitochondrial uncoupler. If the obese could have taken DNP, an obesity epidemic might never have developed. There might now be far fewer metabolic disorders. We cannot know, because the therapeutic window of DNP is too small for regulators of our nanny state.

Enter Peat. The new discovery here, for me and I think for everyone on this forum, is that Peat's work centers on mitochondrial uncouplers, very similar to DNP. Who knew? More than that, it is the management of the blood plasma concentration of these uncouplers that makes them effective.

This is what we may all have seemingly been missing. No post on this forum that I can see has ever considered that the effectiveness of Peat's familiar compounds, which perhaps peata and others have been trying without success, depends on smaller dosage and bi-hourly frequency! How easy is that!

If true, and my CO2 sensor data so far confirms this, then it really is a modern day miracle, and I don't say that lightly.

If you're asking how do I know from personal experience? I use a CO2 sensor to measure end-tidal CO2, which correlates to metabolic rate. It's the next best thing to having my own metabolic chamber! (I've made a couple posts about it above, but happy to explain more if you have questions about that.)

And as to my posts in the Getting Ripped thread, that was about me gaining weight from lean body mass, not losing weight, or I hope I said that? I realized that you can get ripped by simply keeping your bodyfat constant, and increasing lean body mass. And the discovery there, for me, was that --- by eating more! --- I could gain lean body mass and still keep bodyfat the same -- yielding in effect a lower bodyfat %.

I think somebody in that thread (not you) asked me about my progress and I said that I had gained 25 pounds ... of lean body mass, while dropping my bodyfat percentage from roughly 10% to 8% (though those numbers were measured military style, with a tape measure.)

Takeaway: not only do small frequent doses of Peat's uncouplers cause rapid weight loss, perhaps more potently than DNP, but his diet lets you gain lean body mass, while you are losing fat at the same time! Lose fat, get ripped, feel great... It's all good!

Is this takeaway my interpretation of what Peat says?* I wish I could take credit for it! I'm really not that smart. Peat is. In my view, credit goes to Peat!

I'm not trying to stifle debate here. I'd really like to hear from everyone who plus 1'd aquaman's comment that I quoted. tara, milklove, blossom, and anyone else who may agree with aquaman! Please, I need to hear you!

I'm considering creating an open forum just for this topic of uncoupling, it's really that important, and so utterly overlooked, as is all of Peat's and Ling's work. And time, time is of the essence, as a worldwide health crisis may be closing in on all of us.

*Peat I think appropriately does not give specific advice that might be confused with the practice of medicine.

 

[Peata]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

OK, I tried again today and ran into the same problems as before. Raising my metabolism like this only results in headache and intense need to eat and if I can't get food fast enough causes shakiness, extreme internal discomfort, etc. This happened a little while ago and I had to stuff down what I had handy which was not Peaty in the least - a granola bar and 2 strawberry poptarts. I would not have had these symptoms if I hadn't taken the gram of aspirin. Those "foods" were all I had available at the moment and I was freakin desperate. Since I hadn't been taking any "peat" substances in this manner for a long time, I forgot how bad it makes me feel so I wasn't prepared.

So I'm trying to say that another reason this method doesn't work for me is I'm just constantly trying to eat to stave off headaches and low blood sugar. So I eat and eat and then it works against my attempts to lose weight. I much prefer the normalcy and comfort of "eat when hungry". I really don't care if I can't eat 6,000 calories. I have no desire to eat that much. I don't have time or desire to keep shoving food down my throat to keep up with a high metabolism when it makes me physically uncomfortable. Before when I tried this regularly it did not help me lose weight. It just kept me on a treadmill of eat, eat, eat or suffer.

I'm glad it works for others, but for me it causes stress on multiple levels.

 

[visionofstrength]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

OK, I tried again today and ran into the same problems as before. Raising my metabolism like this only results in headache and intense need to eat and if I can't get food fast enough causes shakiness, extreme internal discomfort, etc. This happened a little while ago and I had to stuff down what I had handy which was not Peaty in the least - a granola bar and 2 strawberry poptarts. I would not have had these symptoms if I hadn't taken the gram of aspirin. Those "foods" were all I had available at the moment and I was freakin desperate. Since I hadn't been taking any "peat" substances in this manner for a long time, I forgot how bad it makes me feel so I wasn't prepared.

So I'm trying to say that another reason this method doesn't work for me is I'm just constantly trying to eat to stave off headaches and low blood sugar. So I eat and eat and then it works against my attempts to lose weight. I much prefer the normalcy and comfort of "eat when hungry". I really don't care if I can't eat 6,000 calories. I have no desire to eat that much. I don't have time or desire to keep shoving food down my throat to keep up with a high metabolism when it makes me physically uncomfortable. Before when I tried this regularly it did not help me lose weight. It just kept me on a treadmill of eat, eat, eat or suffer.

I'm glad it works for others, but for me it causes stress on multiple levels.

Yes, I keep chocolate bars on hand, and a soda, juice or sugared coffee. I am never far away from honey or cocoa butter. Cheese sticks are a big help, too.

Keeping a constant supply of sugar and protein is the best way to deal with life's stress, and Peat thinks sugar is protective of the harmful effects of stress.

The miracle of uncoupling is, that as much as you eat, you will only expend more. You really can't help losing weight fast, but -- exactly as you say -- never be so stressed out with life that you neglect your own health, and forget to snack.

 

[aquaman]

Re: The Weight-Loss Miracle Discovered by Ray Peat

Takeaway: not only do small frequent doses of Peat's uncouplers cause rapid weight loss, perhaps more potently than DNP, but his diet lets you gain lean body mass, while you are losing fat at the same time! Lose fat, get ripped, feel great... It's all good!

You definitely have a lot to add on the forum, but how can you say this when you have not lost weight/fat through this yourself? You answered my question about fat loss by saying you know because you've tested your own CO2 levels.

It's back to the conjecture with lots of exclamation marks.

IT'S A MIRACLE!