What are your thoughts about ozempic and how it works, is it dangerous etc.

[lamassu]

According to Peter Attia, he is okay with the therapy when his patients lose at a 4 to 1 ratio of fat to muscle. He starts to get concerned with a 3 to 1 ratio. That's why I'm hitting my protein goals and lifting weights.

How will you know what ratios you are hitting over time? Ongoing body composition scans? I wouldn't be surprised if there are other negative effects to ozempic as well

 

[Snicky]

I wrote in another thread about the adverse effects for my dad when he was on it. He finally gave it up despite loving the weight loss it gave him.

But apart from that, I just wouldn’t want to rely on a pharmaceutical to manage my metabolism. It’s easier, yeah, but seems way more likely to be pandora’s box than finding a sustainable lifestyle.

 

[Insaneacinamide]

Ozempic seems to be incredible. Not only for weight loss, but GLP-1 receptor activation seems to have a lot of interesting benefits: Alzheimers, Parkinsons, stroke, inflammation, neurogenisis, traumatic brain injuries, protection effects onvarious tissues and organs in the body.

Glucagon-like peptide-1 decreases endogenous amyloid-beta peptide (Abeta) levels and protects hippocampal neurons from death induced by Abeta and iron - PubMed

Glucagon-like peptide-1(7-36)-amide (GLP-1) is an endogenous insulinotropic peptide that is secreted from the gastrointestinal tract in response to food. It enhances pancreatic islet beta-cell proliferation and glucose-dependent insulin secretion and lowers blood glucose and food intake in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Moreover, GLP-1 and exendin-4 protect cultured hippocampal neurons against death induced by Abeta and iron, an oxidative insult. Collectively, these data suggest that GLP-1 can modify APP processing and protect against oxidative injury, two actions that suggest a novel therapeutic target for intervention in Alzheimer's disease."

Peptide hormone exendin-4 stimulates subventricular zone neurogenesis in the adult rodent brain and induces recovery in an animal model of Parkinson's disease - PubMed

We investigated the effects of exendin-4 on neural stem/progenitor cells in the subventricular zone of the adult rodent brain and its functional effects in an animal model of Parkinson's disease. Our results showed expression of GLP-1 receptor mRNA or protein in the subventricular zone and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"In conclusion, our results show that exendin-4 is able to promote adult neurogenesis in vitro and in vivo, normalize dopamine imbalance, and increase the number of cells positive for markers of dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra in a model of Parkinson's disease."

The diabetes drug semaglutide reduces infarct size, inflammation, and apoptosis, and normalizes neurogenesis in a rat model of stroke - PubMed

Stroke is a condition with few medical treatments available. Semaglutide, a novel Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) analogue, has been brought to the market as a treatment for diabetes. We tested the protective effects of semaglutide against middle cerebral artery occlusion injury in rats. Animals...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Neurogenesis had also been normalized by the drug treatment as seen in increased neurogenesis (DCX-positive cells) in the dentate gyrus and a normalization of biomarkers for neurogenesis. In conclusion, semaglutide is a promising candidate for re-purposing as a stroke treatment."

Semaglutide is Neuroprotective and Reduces α-Synuclein Levels in the Chronic MPTP Mouse Model of Parkinson's Disease - PubMed

Parkinson's disease (PD) is a progressive neurological motor control disorder. A key feature is the loss of midbrain dopaminergic neurons and the accumulation of aggregated alpha-synuclein (α-syn). No current treatment is on the market that slows or halts disease progression. Previous studies...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"In addition, both drugs rescued the decrease of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) levels, reduced the accumulation of α-syn, alleviated the chronic inflammation response in the brain, reduced lipid peroxidation, and inhibited the mitochondrial mitophagy signaling pathway, and furthermore increased expression of the key growth factor GDNF that protects dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra (SN) and striatum."

Semaglutide-mediated protection against Aβ correlated with enhancement of autophagy and inhibition of apotosis - PubMed

Our results provide a clue for the hypothesis that autophagy enhancement and apoptosis inhibition may be involved in the effect of semaglutide to protect against Aβ _25-35.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

GLP-1 improves neuropathology after murine cold lesion brain trauma

In this study, we address a gap in knowledge regarding the therapeutic potential of acute treatment with a glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) receptor agonist after severe brain trauma. Moreover, it remains still unknown whether GLP-1 treatment activates ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"the GLP-1r, Lira was a powerful driver of CREB phosphorylation and neuroprotective BDNF, PGC-1α, and Ngb under neurotraumatic stress. This milieu may function as pro-survival, anti-oxidant, and anti-neurodegenerative after TBI and may have interesting implications for critical care strategies against TBI."

Glucagon-like peptide-1 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dominus]

How will you know what ratios you are hitting over time? Ongoing body composition scans? I wouldn't be surprised if there are other negative effects to ozempic as well

Dexa scans are used to determine ratios, but I'm not going to do that. I will gauge my muscle loss by how strong I am in the gym.

 

[Pete Rey]

If you go to the anabolic minds forum and visit the supplements forum, there is a product that uses myricetin, a natural GLP-1 agonist comparable to liraglutide in rat studies. I'm not trying to shill it so anyone can go sniff around if they really want to find it. I don't endorse bodybuilding culture. But I may or may not have bought a few bottles on sale. It works well enough for me to want to be cautious with it. I was surprised to find it to be quite anabolic with a noticeable increase in muscle definition.

 

[Elie]

Everyone is taking Ozempic today, it seems, for fat loss. What do you think about it? Is it dangerous? If so, why? Thank you.

see this thread with more insight. TikToker gains twice as much weight after quitting Ozempic

 

[Elie]

If you go to the anabolic minds forum and visit the supplements forum, there is a product that uses myricetin, a natural GLP-1 agonist comparable to liraglutide in rat studies. I'm not trying to shill it so anyone can go sniff around if they really want to find it. I don't endorse bodybuilding culture. But I may or may not have bought a few bottles on sale. It works well enough for me to want to be cautious with it. I was surprised to find it to be quite anabolic with a noticeable increase in muscle definition.

When you say it works well enough for you, do mean in terms of weight loss?
What dose do you use and if you can share more about what got you curious about it that would be great.

 

[Blossom]

From a personal experience perspective:
I had two female patients (one 30’s and the other 40’s) last year that went unresponsive while on it for weight loss and came to the hospital I was working at for ventilator weaning after a previous ICU stay. Both were females and were successfully weaned from the vent. The one in her 40’s remains severely debilitated requiring 24/7 care and a trach. The lady in her 30’s came back to the hospital a couple months after discharge to thank us for helping her. She was living at home again with her husband and young daughter and only needed a walker to get around. We had already removed her trach before she left our facility. Sadly the day she came in she said “I’m still fat.”
I tell anyone who asks my opinion that I think it’s too risky and there doesn’t seem to be enough long term safety to warrant taking it imo.

 

[Pete Rey]

When you say it works well enough for you, do mean in terms of weight loss?
What dose do you use and if you can share more about what got you curious about it that would be great.

I didn't stick to a set dose or schedule, just experimenting. Effects are waist line down, muscle definition up, strength up. Kind of like a recomp pill without changing diet. However, the effects go away upon cessation.

I can see how the rebound could be bad for people with real obesity problems who come off.

 

[Elie]

I didn't stick to a set dose or schedule, just experimenting. Effects are waist line down, muscle definition up, strength up. Kind of like a recomp pill without changing diet. However, the effects go away upon cessation.

I can see how the rebound could be bad for people with real obesity problems who come off.

you mean the reduction in waist stops or there is a rebound weight gain?
Were you overweight when you started?
What dose did you use?

 

[xeliex]

I think Ray would say that anything that slows down the movement of food and nutrient extraction and excretion is dangerous.

 

[Pete Rey]

you mean the reduction in waist stops or there is a rebound weight gain?
Were you overweight when you started?
What dose did you use?

1. I went back to baseline in all 3 ways mentioned.
2. No, I have an athletic build but I can easily grow a gut if not mindful.
3. Many, as I said I was just experimenting with it.

 

[Osukhan]

If you go to the anabolic minds forum and visit the supplements forum, there is a product that uses myricetin, a natural GLP-1 agonist comparable to liraglutide in rat studies. I'm not trying to shill it so anyone can go sniff around if they really want to find it. I don't endorse bodybuilding culture. But I may or may not have bought a few bottles on sale. It works well enough for me to want to be cautious with it. I was surprised to find it to be quite anabolic with a noticeable increase in muscle definition.

Myricetin: A comprehensive review on its biological potentials

Myricetin is a critical nutritive component of diet providing immunological protection and beneficial for maintaining good health. It is found in fruits, vegetables, tea, and wine. The families Myricaceae, Polygonaceae, Primulaceae, Pinaceae, and Anacardiaceae ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

interesting compound, thanks for mentioning it

 

[Dominus]

From a personal experience perspective:
I had two female patients (one 30’s and the other 40’s) last year that went unresponsive while on it for weight loss and came to the hospital I was working at for ventilator weaning after a previous ICU stay. Both were females and were successfully weaned from the vent. The one in her 40’s remains severely debilitated requiring 24/7 care and a trach. The lady in her 30’s came back to the hospital a couple months after discharge to thank us for helping her. She was living at home again with her husband and young daughter and only needed a walker to get around. We had already removed her trach before she left our facility. Sadly the day she came in she said “I’m still fat.”
I tell anyone who asks my opinion that I think it’s too risky and there doesn’t seem to be enough long term safety to warrant taking it imo.

How long had they been on it? Did they have a stroke? Did they pass out and have trauma to the head? What other therapies where they on?

 

[Blossom]

How long had they been on it? Did they have a stroke? Did they pass out and have trauma to the head? What other therapies where they on?

I didn’t do any in-depth case studies on either of them. It was always my typical habit to briefly review the discharge summaries though from the ICU on my ventilator patients upon admission to our hospital. Both were quite vague (which is common) just stating they were found down/unresponsive and EMS was called. They were both intubated and placed on ventilators due to being unconscious to protect their airway but neither of them were unable to wean off quickly so they were given a tracheotomy and sent to us. One had no other substances in her system and one had alcohol. I haven’t checked if alcohol is contraindicated with ozempic but alcohol can lower blood sugar. I don’t know the length of time either of them took ozempic unfortunately. The lady that continued to require 24/7 care was same one who had also been drinking alcohol when she was taken to the hospital. She regained her ability to talk with a speaking valve on her trach but definitely suffered cognitive impairments. The other one came into the hospital on her walker with her family and asked for me and some other workers by name so she didn’t suffer any permanent cognitive deficits.

I’m not trying to fear monger I just think there could be potential issues that may possibly come to light in the future after more people have been on it awhile and that those considering it should do their due diligence before making a decision.

I’m biased of course because I lost 80 pounds off my 5’1 frame with old fashioned diet and exercise. It took years and it was hard. :) I’ve also been injured by pharmaceuticals so I’m extremely cautious.

 

[Dominus]

I didn’t do any in-depth case studies on either of them. It was always my typical habit to briefly review the discharge summaries though from the ICU on my ventilator patients upon admission to our hospital. Both were quite vague (which is common) just stating they were found down/unresponsive and EMS was called. They were both intubated and placed on ventilators due to being unconscious to protect their airway but neither of them were unable to wean off quickly so they were given a tracheotomy and sent to us. One had no other substances in her system and one had alcohol. I haven’t checked if alcohol is contraindicated with ozempic but alcohol can lower blood sugar. I don’t know the length of time either of them took ozempic unfortunately. The lady that continued to require 24/7 care was same one who had also been drinking alcohol when she was taken to the hospital. She regained her ability to talk with a speaking valve on her trach but definitely suffered cognitive impairments. The other one came into the hospital on her walker with her family and asked for me and some other workers by name so she didn’t suffer any permanent cognitive deficits.

I’m not trying to fear monger I just think there could be potential issues that may possibly come to light in the future after more people have been on it awhile and that those considering it should do their due diligence before making a decisi
I’m biased of course because I lost 80 pounds off my 5’1 frame with old fashioned diet and exercise. It took years and it was hard. :) I’ve also been injured by pharmaceuticals so I’m extremely cautious.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have lost 30 to 50 pounds 5 times in the last 20 years. I really don't think it's a will power issue. And as a pharmacist, I am highly skeptical of the corrupt pharmaceutical industry. I don't take any other prescription product. I have also been in the anti GLP camp for a few years until a few weeks ago after I was beaten into a state of reasonableness by my extreme holiday weight gain. I literally gained 20 pounds in three weeks. With every treatment you weight risks and benefits and I'm riding with tirzepatide. And if I take the dirt nap, the family gets paid.

Peace

 

[Blossom]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have lost 30 to 50 pounds 5 times in the last 20 years. I really don't think it's a will power issue. And as a pharmacist, I am highly skeptical of the corrupt pharmaceutical industry. I don't take any other prescription product. I have also been in the anti GLP camp for a few years until a few weeks ago after I was beaten into a state of reasonableness by my extreme holiday weight gain. I literally gained 20 pounds in three weeks. With every treatment you weight risks and benefits and I'm riding with tirzepatide. And if I take the dirt nap, the family gets paid.

Peace

As a pharmacist you are definitely more qualified than me to judge different medicines sir! I also completely respect other peoples choices. I sincerely hope you don’t take the dirt nap (that we will all take one day) though! Btw-Dirt nap is a good one.

 

[Dominus]

As a pharmacist you are definitely more qualified than me to judge different medicines sir! I also completely respect other peoples choices. I sincerely hope you don’t take the dirt nap (that we will all take one day) though! Btw-Dirt nap is a good one.

I'm taking your feedback seriously. You know we can't trust Eli Lilly to be honest about safety data. My confidence does increase when doctors like Peter Attia have been treating patients with these drugs for a few years with good results.

That said, I am new to Ray Peat and I have been immersing myself into his work for the last month. I feel great eating liver, ice cream and oysters. And I really love putting sugar in my coffee. Its a game changer. Once the weight is lost, I will do my best to prevent fatty acid oxidation.

 

[lamassu]

Dexa scans are used to determine ratios, but I'm not going to do that. I will gauge my muscle loss by how strong I am in the gym.

You would also be impacting your strength by any changes to your training but I suppose your warning sign would just be any loss of strength or performance. Personally, for weight loss I would first try supplementing thyroid, caloric restriction, caffeine and exercise. Potentially, I'd also try to evaluate androgen and estrogen status as weight gain can be linked to high estrogen.

 

[Blossom]

You know we can't trust Eli Lilly to be honest about safety data. My confidence does increase when doctors like Peter Attia have been treating patients with these drugs for a few years with good results.

True on both accounts. We each have our own unique risk tolerance as well. I’m sure I have done (and currently do) some things others wouldn’t be interested in taking on the potential risks.
I found a really good program for the last 10-15 pounds that helped me get leaner and I built muscle (via blood sugar monitoring) while eating the particular foods I prefer if you need something non pharma or supplement but still helpful in the future. Of course it’s a little work but you do learn to eat based on your personal glucose trigger so during the trigger reduction phase it’s not easy. It teaches how different foods impact the body (and we are all different) so you can dial in when/what to eat to reach your goals. It basically just makes you honest and accountable with yourself when you can see with real data if you’re fueling too much.
Best wishes sir!