Why Is There So Much Soluble Fibre In Human Breast Milk?

[InChristAlone]

I have been trying to follow that thread,
but I can't decide if that gbolduev guy is on the level.
He sure knows how to cop the tone of someone who believes he is right
(and everybody else is wrong ).

The chemistry he and haidut are talking is way beyond me.

As best I can tell gbolduev follows the ideas of this Eck guy.
And his own experience as a lab tech or something working with blood gases...?
And...I guess in keeping with the Eck ideas,
he tests hair to establish each individual's mineral profile and thus mineral needs...?

So...where did you get your hair analyzed?

Not sure about the parasites, the salsa I had was fresh but did not include raw garlic. I am amazed at how flat my stomach is still, ran out of bananas yesterday. I lost 2 pounds of bloat over the last few days.

There's been a lot going on in this thread, so a little lost.
Was it salsa and bananas that got rid of your bloat?

Yeah a lot of it is beyond me as well, but I'm getting really into this stuff, I think the HTMA does give you some perspective on what your body is doing, not so much with blood tests, as with those there is a very tight range that the body has to keep everything, like you aren't going to see calcium out of range unless you have a parathyroid problem. He did say that he could tell if my sodium and chloride were a bit low on my blood test it would confirm low stomach acid and alkalosis and that I tend toward low blood volume.

I got it done through a practitioner from Trace Elements.

I can't be positive what shifted the bloat so dramatically some of it may be due to the start of my period 6 days ago as well, since it was really bad premenstrually. I think bananas are good for me though!

 

[Such_Saturation]

Try fresh artichokes cleaned, tips chopped off so they are flat, head down into an inch of olive oil. Thank me later

Hmmm...
so you mean you cook them like that?

Yes, the upper part gets steamed, since the air is trapped. I finish them off on their sides. This is an example:

 

[narouz]

Try fresh artichokes cleaned, tips chopped off so they are flat, head down into an inch of olive oil. Thank me later

Hmmm...
so you mean you cook them like that?

Yes, the upper part gets steamed, since the air is trapped. I finish them off on their sides. This is an example:

I see.
Really an inch of olive oil...?
I mean, I will...just checking.
I just got one from the store.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Try fresh artichokes cleaned, tips chopped off so they are flat, head down into an inch of olive oil. Thank me later

Hmmm...
so you mean you cook them like that?

Yes, the upper part gets steamed, since the air is trapped. I finish them off on their sides. This is an example:

I see.
Really an inch of olive oil...?
I mean, I will...just checking.
I just got one from the store.

You can substitute rapeseed oil pot diameter is also up to the user.

 

[narouz]

Try fresh artichokes cleaned, tips chopped off so they are flat, head down into an inch of olive oil. Thank me later

Hmmm...
so you mean you cook them like that?

Yes, the upper part gets steamed, since the air is trapped. I finish them off on their sides. This is an example:

I see.
Really an inch of olive oil...?
I mean, I will...just checking.
I just got one from the store.

You can substitute rapeseed oil pot diameter is also up to the user.

Haha.
Yeah, going with the olive oil.
I was just trying to picture what's supposed to happen.
With a full inch of oil seems like it would be more like
boiling them in oil
than frying them...

...but what do I know?
I'm eatin' inulin.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Haha.
Yeah, going with the olive oil.
I was just trying to picture what's supposed to happen.
With a full inch of oil seems like it would be more like
boiling them in oil
than frying them...

...but what do I know?
I'm eatin' inulin.

I never said fry. You must free your mind of these concepts

https://youtu.be/lK8mA2OtqEM?t=4m38s

 

[narouz]

Haha.
Yeah, going with the olive oil.
I was just trying to picture what's supposed to happen.
With a full inch of oil seems like it would be more like
boiling them in oil
than frying them...

...but what do I know?
I'm eatin' inulin.

I never said fry. You must free your mind of these concepts

https://youtu.be/lK8mA2OtqEM?t=4m38s

Damn my infernal mind-forg'd manacles!
I'm boilin' my 'choke in olive oil!!

 

[HDD]

I was struggling with the concept of steaming in oil, too, narouz!

 

[narouz]

I was struggling with the concept of steaming in oil, too, narouz!

I'm really not sure about Such's handle on this.
If you watch the video--it's in Italian,but--
it looks like, yeah, there's a good amount of oil in there.
But looks like she also adds a couple cups of water.
Maybe it was white wine or vinegar?

Well, maybe Such has his own inch-deep oil and no other liquid technique....

 

[Such_Saturation]

In each video they make it different. It's a spectrum between that video and the first photo I posted, which is a different recipe. Seems like the former would maintain more of the fiber, but you would have to ask your bacteria, really.

 

[HDD]

http://memoriediangelina.com/2010/03/21 ... bQy69m9Kc1

Roman style artichoke (in English)

 

[narouz]

http://memoriediangelina.com/2010/03/21/carciofi-alla-romana/#.VbQy69m9Kc1

Roman style artichoke (in English)

Wow.
And that's exactly how Such described it. :)

 

[Stuart]

NEVER, even in my wildestpboyesque fantasies would I have imagined that Such_ was a closet fermentable fiber hound.
The 'oil boiled' artichoke hearts look like a veritable gourmet adventure too. Must try that. Macadamia oil is another 'boiling' possibility. Considerably less pufa than olive oil. Although the nutty flavour tends to dominate other food flavours a bit.
And leaving a bit of stem. That's a decorative inspired touch that I've only seen done with mushrooms before.

@ Narouz
That Wiki stuff you posted about the antioxidant prowess of globe artichokes was all new to me. Particularly the luteolin factor caught my attention. Celery is also very high in luteolin. But I can't stand the taste.

I wonder why a little ginger like tuber got called kind of 'holy land artichoke' when biologically it isn't even remotely like a true artichoke? Must find out.
The inulin in globe artichokes is apparently even longer than the average chain length in the Oraft HP that Beneo tout as the bee's knees in terms of prebiotic prowess.
What a remarkable flower they are.
One thing I didn't mention is that dandelion roots are also very high in inulin. The above ground bit has some, and a lot of antioxidant constituents, but not as much inulin.
The inulin content of tuberous roots is ubiquitous across the plant kingdom. One of the dietary mainstays throughout human history was the sweet/ starchy tuberous roots of a plant called the 'Cattail' ('bullrushes' in Oz). which to this day grow endemically on marshy ground the world over. If you see some of them growing where you live in the U.S. pull up some of the tuberous little roots and taste them. They're delicious.
Humans have always eaten a lot of carbohydrate, and the fermentable fiber part of it (inulin, pectin in fruits) is only a few fructose links along the molecular structure of carbohydrate after all.
In fact in China, long chain inulin is actually called 'Polyfructose'.
It seems to me that if there had been some nutritionally superior way to metabolize the 'fermentable fiber' part of the world of carbohydrates in the upper digestive tract than providing a big bag full of bacteria to do it for us, we surely wouldn't even have a colon.
That endotoxin scavenging effect of the butyrate that fermentable fiber produces in the colon that EnoreeG mentioned ( ....phosphatase) is interesting isn't it?
Don't you think it's time Dr. Peat made friends with his microbiome?

 

[narouz]

The inulin content of tuberous roots is ubiquitous across the plant kingdom. One of the dietary mainstays throughout human history was the sweet/ starchy tuberous roots of a plant called the 'Cattail' ('bullrushes' in Oz). which to this day grow endemically on marshy ground the world over. If you see some of them growing where you live in the U.S. pull up some of the tuberous little roots and taste them. They're delicious.
Humans have always eaten a lot of carbohydrate, and the fermentable fiber part of it (inulin, pectin in fruits) is only a few fructose links along the molecular structure of carbohydrate after all.
In fact in China, long chain inulin is actually called 'Polyfructose'.

You know, I've always noticed CatTail.
I grew up in Ohio USA
and they had a lot of catttails there, especially around the ponds and lakes.
I see them around where I live now too, seasonally, in watery areas.
I've gotta get some cattail tubers!

 

[Stuart]

You know, I've always noticed CatTail.
I grew up in Ohio USA
and they had a lot of catttails there, especially around the ponds and lakes.
I see them around where I live now too, seasonally, in watery areas.
I've gotta get some cattail tubers!

Near where I grew up in Brisbane. there was a huge field of them beside a river that we used to spend a lot of time in having boyhood adventures. Including using the very straight stalks as arrow shafts for our makeshift archery exploits. The whole time I was oblivious to the carbohydrate bounty which lay beneath.

 

[EnoreeG]

You know, I've always noticed CatTail.
I grew up in Ohio USA
and they had a lot of catttails there, especially around the ponds and lakes.
I see them around where I live now too, seasonally, in watery areas.
I've gotta get some cattail tubers!

Near where I grew up in Brisbane. there was a huge field of them beside a river that we used to spend a lot of time in having boyhood adventures. Including using the very straight stalks as arrow shafts for our makeshift archery exploits. The whole time I was oblivious to the carbohydrate bounty which lay beneath.

I read about the cattails tasty tubers back in the 70's and had them growing near my house and so tasted them a few times. They are delicious. New shoots are edible also. I didn't know about the inulin until now. They just taste starchy, but maybe more sweet and succulent than a dry, baked potato.

 

[Such_Saturation]

NEVER, even in my wildestpboyesque fantasies would I have imagined that Such_ was a closet fermentable fiber hound.
The 'oil boiled' artichoke hearts look like a veritable gourmet adventure too. Must try that. Macadamia oil is another 'boiling' possibility. Considerably less pufa than olive oil. Although the nutty flavour tends to dominate other food flavours a bit.
And leaving a bit of stem. That's a decorative inspired touch that I've only seen done with mushrooms before.

@ Narouz
That Wiki stuff you posted about the antioxidant prowess of globe artichokes was all new to me. Particularly the luteolin factor caught my attention. Celery is also very high in luteolin. But I can't stand the taste.

I wonder why a little ginger like tuber got called kind of 'holy land artichoke' when biologically it isn't even remotely like a true artichoke? Must find out.
The inulin in globe artichokes is apparently even longer than the average chain length in the Oraft HP that Beneo tout as the bee's knees in terms of prebiotic prowess.
What a remarkable flower they are.
One thing I didn't mention is that dandelion roots are also very high in inulin. The above ground bit has some, and a lot of antioxidant constituents, but not as much inulin.
The inulin content of tuberous roots is ubiquitous across the plant kingdom. One of the dietary mainstays throughout human history was the sweet/ starchy tuberous roots of a plant called the 'Cattail' ('bullrushes' in Oz). which to this day grow endemically on marshy ground the world over. If you see some of them growing where you live in the U.S. pull up some of the tuberous little roots and taste them. They're delicious.
Humans have always eaten a lot of carbohydrate, and the fermentable fiber part of it (inulin, pectin in fruits) is only a few fructose links along the molecular structure of carbohydrate after all.
In fact in China, long chain inulin is actually called 'Polyfructose'.
It seems to me that if there had been some nutritionally superior way to metabolize the 'fermentable fiber' part of the world of carbohydrates in the upper digestive tract than providing a big bag full of bacteria to do it for us, we surely wouldn't even have a colon.
That endotoxin scavenging effect of the butyrate that fermentable fiber produces in the colon that EnoreeG mentioned ( ....phosphatase) is interesting isn't it?
Don't you think it's time Dr. Peat made friends with his microbiome?

I am sorry friend, for you only see life in black and white

 

[narouz]

Don't you think it's time Dr. Peat made friends with his microbiome?

Well, yeah .
That is what this thread is probing.

I'm not sure of Peat's exact wording,
but in an Herb Doctors radio interview
he said something like:
"If we have to live in a world with bacteria,
we might as well learn to get along with them."

Now...Dr. P's idea of getting along with them
is to starve them of their ideal (so you say, Stuart) food
and to whack them with antibiotic carrots daily
and occasionally with man-made antibiotics.

So, to me, there's an opening to wonder about his approach.
He may well be right.
But if part of his goal is to control bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine,
well...what if that can be accomplished by giving the critters the foods they like?
And then they regulate themselves maybe?

After all, Peat seems to use somewhat this same logic
when he says that the bacteria stay happy
and don't plunge their filaments into our gut lining
if we give them sugars.
Maybe his notion of what food makes the bacteria happy
was just a little off....

 

[EnoreeG]

Nice interpretation, narouz.

As I say in my signature, Peat's not wrong, but he may need your (or others') interpretation.

Even simple sugars may be fine, in the small intestine (SI), as long as something in the way of far better microbial food can reach the critters who need to stay in the large intestine. So he could be off a little there, as you say, in not addressing that, and in his emphasis mostly on what is absorbed in the SI. The fact that some of the foods he happens to recommend just happen to, by chance, feed the large intestinal microbes may escape him, or he may not choose to dwell on it. (He has stated that potatoes are an almost ideal food and that poor people can live on them exclusively for long periods, being short on only a few vitamins.

 

[Stuart]

Don't you think it's time Dr. Peat made friends with his microbiome?

Well, yeah .
That is what this thread is probing.

I'm not sure of Peat's exact wording,
but in an Herb Doctors radio interview
he said something like:
"If we have to live in a world with bacteria,
we might as well learn to get along with them."

Isn't that why we have a microbiome? There's simply no better way to make sure the pathogenic ones don't make our lives a misery. Broad spectrum antibiotics kill as many beneficial bacteria in your microbiota as pathogens, so what you are left with is an inflammatory mess.
Also, have you ever heard Dr. Peat dfferentiating between commensal (beneficial) bacteria and pathogenic (harmful) ones? I'm curious because I wonder if he's even aware that if your microbiota is healthy, the commensals keep the pathogens under control as well as providing a host of other anti inflammatory benefits. In fact one of the things that struck me very early on is that he seems to be aware that the root cause of all disease is inflammation, yet by having an unhealthy microbiome, you are guaranteeing an undesirable level of inflammation. Because one of the jobs it does is control inflammation. Also, he talks of bacteria almost as 'the enemy'. Some are, definitely, But our bodies are equipped with a huge bag of bacteria called the colon to play an integral role in our health by ensuring that the commensals keep the pathogens in their boxes.
I don't think you could get your colon surgically removed. And there is no other way of preventing it being full to the brim of a mix of good and bad bacteria, unless you spend your whole life in a germ free bubble. Beneficial bacteria don't just keep humans well either. They are intricately involved in every single detail of life on earth.
It does worry me a bit that Dr. Peat does seem to share at least a hint of the 'Pboy/Sea' attitude to bacteria.
You personally are in the process of discovering that promoting the beneficial bacteria in your colon is by far the best way to ensure that you don't get overgrowths of either bacteria or yeasts/fungii in your S.I. - or anywhere else in your body in my experience. But microbiome health is a lifelong responsibility. Of course throwing fermentable fiber at a dysbiotic gut isn't going to be a short term answer to any of your health problems, let alone ALL of them - as that article in another thread pointed out.
We can''t avoid having a healthy microbiome while we're babies. The bacteria and prebiotics breast milk (most formula milks do both now as well) provides guarantee it. But then we tend to lose the plot later on.

Now...Dr. P's idea of getting along with them
is to starve them of their ideal (so you say, Stuart) food
and to whack them with antibiotic carrots daily
and occasionally with man-made antibiotics.

Carrots are great ( you don't have to grate them though, chewing is fine). Many foods have a demonstrated selective anti pathogenic action. Garlic is another. They actually enhance a healthy microbiome, by leaving beneficial bacteria alone. But man made broad spectrum antibiotics always have a disruptive effect on a healthy microbiome. Which makes recurrent yeast/fungal overgrowths in your S.I. more likely. Not sure about carrot, but garlic has a very powerful antifungal action. whereas manmade antibiotics don't touch them. Disrupting the small population of beneficial bacteria in a healthy S. I. almost seems to guarantee that you'll experience pathogenic bacterial overgrowths there in future, as well as the equally health robbing yeast/ fungal overgrowths.
And just to clarify, fermentable fiber selectively nourishes the species of bacteria that do beneficial things in our colons - like produce butyrate). So perhaps talking about it being their 'favourite' food is just an anthropomorhism.
It's so important in any discussion about gut health to always be aware that 'commensal' bacteria do health promoting things in our bodies (not just out colons either) and pathogens don't. One of those 'health promoting things' is to control the bacterial species that seek to do us harm.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dr. Peat seems to ignore - or perhaps not even be aware of - this critical distinction between good and bad bacteria.

So, to me, there's an opening to wonder about his approach.
He may well be right.
But if part of his goal is to control bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine,
well...what if that can be accomplished by giving the critters the foods they like?
And then they regulate themselves maybe?

Well, put it this way, he has lots of other really worthwhile insights into human health, which can immeasurably improve it. The pufa thing springs to mind, but there are many.
Combine those health principles with promoting a healthy microbiome, and strict Peatarianism becomes incalculably more powerful IMHO :)

After all, Peat seems to use somewhat this same logic
when he says that the bacteria stay happy
and don't plunge their filaments into our gut lining
if we give them sugars.
Maybe his notion of what food makes the bacteria happy
was just a little off....

Well, it's not actually bacteria that do that. It's yeasts/fungii. They produce these 'hyphae' in soil too. Apparently a single yeast organism can grow its hyphae in undisturbed soil many miles. Which is one of the best arguments for 'no dig' gardening. But in the human body a healthy microbiome has far more powerful mechanisms to prevent yeasts sending these tendrils into surrounding tissue than just feeding them sugar. You wouldn't feed a heroin addict more of his preferred drug because his body will find getting off the junk difficult would you? There's other good reasons to eat sugar though of course. I think respecting our evolutionary heritage of eating a lot of carbohydrate is another one of Dr. Peat's good ideas.
Don't eat too many artichokes
And in your ruminations about 'bacteria' I've always found it helps to avoid the pboysea trap by always thinking of a #@%^GERM %$@* as being either 'commensal' or pathogenic. The former type you want on your team. The latter are far more likely to dominate the play if the former are not around in sufficient numbers.
Maybe the good Dr. should do likewise