You cannot supplement your way out of spiritual issues.

[chickasawlane]

Are people on this forum aware that they are trying to use Ray’s work on metabolism as a means to overcome what are spiritual issues?

Example, people often refer to depression as a chemical imbalance. Yes, you can be metabolically depressed, but if you identify with the thoughts that YOU are depressed, then no matter how great your stack is to help you metabolically, you’ve already identified with it and that’s a much larger issue. To which you can not overcome that on your own efforts without God.

Anyone else notice this in themselves or others?

 

[opethfeldt]

I think all health problems are spiritual in nature. Dis-ease is always rooted in spiritual issues. You can supplement your way out of them, for a time. But, because you haven't learned the lessons these problems were meant to alert you to address, you'll end up experiencing them later, perhaps even stronger. There are no accidents in life.

 

[Mr Joe]

Are people on this forum aware that they are trying to use Ray’s work on metabolism as a means to overcome what are spiritual issues?

Example, people often refer to depression as a chemical imbalance. Yes, you can be metabolically depressed, but if you identify with the thoughts that YOU are depressed, then no matter how great your stack is to help you metabolically, you’ve already identified with it and that’s a much larger issue. To which you can not overcome that on your own efforts without God.

Anyone else notice this in themselves or others?

Yes I recognize myself here. I call it the "trio of happiness" = Spirituality, Metabolism and Financial freedom. I guess the last one is not that important if both spirituality and metabolism are present. Anybody that says "I don't care about god" or "Just enjoy life" is coping while trying to increase metabolism to "have enough energy to cope and forget". But on the other hand you can be very religious believe hard on anything Jesus, Allah, Vishnou I don't know but still experiencing depression and anxiety due to stress and low metabolism. Most Muslim contry have a lot of depression issues. So the perfect way to look at it is to find the good balance of spirituality and metabolism. Also answering some deep philosophical questions needs energy and ability to stand and read a lot, listen, compare. Getting ready to accept that "everything I learnt might be wrong" is also stressful for the brain and metabolism helps coping. Once you find the good answers, mainly that everything has a point and a reason, and you find your way on the spiritual term you can focus on life and metabolism to help you and do things that are meaningful for the humanity no matter what the answer will be and forget about the "it's useless to do that, the world is ****88 anyway". Because the key is to understand that the most important thing is trying to have a goal, keep that goal until your destiny is revealed.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEUnb2mE_nw&ab_channel=MingChing

 

[Nfinkelstein]

This again seems like a troll --- your second post on the forum and you are accusing peaters of having unresolved spiritual issues.

 

[chickasawlane]

This again seems like a troll --- your second post on the forum and you are accusing peaters of having unresolved spiritual issues.

No trolling here. Just sharing some observations I’ve had about myself while focusing on metabolism, and about what I see a lot of here on this forum. Hoping to help others who may be suffering unnessecarily trying to fix every little part of their metabolism before being able to feel whole.

I’m not using Ray’s work to build up an ego so I can become a better lover in bed like most men discuss here. I’ve fallen for the trap of thinking I need to have the right supplements to be able to overcome anxieties, worries, fears, doubts, insecurities, etc. A good metabolism can bring relief from it, but it doesn’t resolve it.

What’s wrong with having a discussion about it? I may be wrong, but from your reply you seem bothered by it. Why?

 

[chickasawlane]

I think all health problems are spiritual in nature. Dis-ease is always rooted in spiritual issues. You can supplement your way out of them, for a time. But, because you haven't learned the lessons these problems were meant to alert you to address, you'll end up experiencing them later, perhaps even stronger. There are no accidents in life.

Great reply. So do you think it’s possible that focusing more on the spiritual issues internally will bring about the good metabolism naturally to support it?

 

[chickasawlane]

Yes I recognize myself here. I call it the "trio of happiness" = Spirituality, Metabolism and Financial freedom. I guess the last one is not that important if both spirituality and metabolism are present. Anybody that says "I don't care about god" or "Just enjoy life" is coping while trying to increase metabolism to "have enough energy to cope and forget". But on the other hand you can be very religious believe hard on anything Jesus, Allah, Vishnou I don't know but still whatever you’re searching for will be revealed to you.

Yes I recognize myself here. I call it the "trio of happiness" = Spirituality, Metabolism and Financial freedom. I guess the last one is not that important if both spirituality and metabolism are present. Anybody that says "I don't care about god" or "Just enjoy life" is coping while trying to increase metabolism to "have enough energy to cope and forget". But on the other hand you can be very religious believe hard on anything Jesus, Allah, Vishnou I don't know but still experiencing depression and anxiety due to stress and low metabolism. Most Muslim contry have a lot of depression issues. So the perfect way to look at it is to find the good balance of spirituality and metabolism. Also answering some deep philosophical questions needs energy and ability to stand and read a lot, listen, compare. Getting ready to accept that "everything I learnt might be wrong" is also stressful for the brain and metabolism helps coping. Once you find the good answers, mainly that everything has a point and a reason, and you find your way on the spiritual term you can focus on life and metabolism to help you and do things that are meaningful for the humanity no matter what the answer will be and forget about the "it's useless to do that, the world is ****88 anyway". Because the key is to understand that the most important thing is trying to have a goal, keep that goal until your destiny is revealed.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEUnb2mE_nw&ab_channel=MingChing

Dude I love that video!!! Thanks for posting that.

You made a lot of good points here. I like how you’re aware that you can still be religious, and experience “depression” and “anxiety” due to metabolic issues. Religion alone still does not bring peace. Many people don’t know how to live with a low metabolism, and still have a good outlook on life because they are unable to separate from the ego. No amount of metabolic or religious knowledge can help someone overcome that. Only by continually getting to know yourself can you. And this happens by being still, and knowing God.

To me, I’ve noticed it doesn’t help to be aware of all these metabolic processes if when I don’t “get something right” I judge myself for it. Get down on myself. Listen to the thoughts tell me how horrible I am. Sure, you can say that’s probably the serotonin talking, but it took me a long time and through a lot of stillness and awareness to see it’s not “me.” I’m still at peace even if I’m not feeling well.

You sound like you’re going in the right direction. Keep at it. Things get revealed when you’re ready to see.

 

[Runenight201]

Interestingly enough, spirit has its Latin roots with the word spiritus, which literally means breath. When I think of the word spiritual, I believe a reclamation of its original latin definition is in order, which doesn't need to involve any myths of an imaginary god who conditionally blesses only if you commit a weekly cannibalism of his own son, yet is willing to send you to eternal damnation for acting on a homosexual orientation that he created you with.

The ability to properly nasal breath with vagal nerve stimulation to place an individual into parasympathetic dominance will allow them to enter into conscious states that can be subjectively described as "peaceful" and "grounded". This is a very enjoyable place to be, not only in that the slower breathing will accumulate CO2 in the body causing an increase in Oxygen utilization via the Bohr effect, but also because cortisol and adrenaline will lower. Desire will dissipate and the associated suffering that can cause from the inability to obtain what is desired.

However enjoyable it may be, this state cannot be lived in perpetuity, as eventually an animal will have to seek out resources to continue to maintain its structure, primarily via the means of food acquisition. Additionally, a natural drive to reproduce may also be experienced if the nutrition is quality enough, hormones healthy enough, and placed around external stimulus of the opposite sex. All of these will cause them to enter into a sympathetic state of action in order to obtain a goal, whether it be food, water, or sex.

Proper living thus would be a balance between the parasympathetic and sympathetic states of being, where an organism properly moves between the two as its needs change dependent on its internal and external environments.

Suffering thus would occur when an organism is unable to properly manage these states, and lives in a state of perpetual sympathetic dominance, common when a human has become unable to enter into parasympathetic relaxation due to external stress, poor diets, bad relationships, trauma, etc, etc...

 

[chickasawlane]

Interestingly enough, spirit has its Latin roots with the word spiritus, which literally means breath. When I think of the word spiritual, I believe a reclamation of its original latin definition is in order, which doesn't need to involve any myths of an imaginary god who conditionally blesses only if you commit a weekly cannibalism of his own son, yet is willing to send you to eternal damnation for acting on a homosexual orientation that he created you with.

The ability to properly nasal breath with vagal nerve stimulation to place an individual into parasympathetic dominance will allow them to enter into conscious states that can be subjectively described as "peaceful" and "grounded". This is a very enjoyable place to be, not only in that the slower breathing will accumulate CO2 in the body causing an increase in Oxygen utilization via the Bohr effect, but also because cortisol and adrenaline will lower. Desire will dissipate and the associated suffering that can cause from the inability to obtain what is desired.

However enjoyable it may be, this state cannot be lived in perpetuity, as eventually an animal will have to seek out resources to continue to maintain its structure, primarily via the means of food acquisition. Additionally, a natural drive to reproduce may also be experienced if the nutrition is quality enough, hormones healthy enough, and placed around external stimulus of the opposite sex. All of these will cause them to enter into a sympathetic state of action in order to obtain a goal, whether it be food, water, or sex.

Proper living thus would be a balance between the parasympathetic and sympathetic states of being, where an organism properly moves between the two as its needs change dependent on its internal and external environments.

Suffering thus would occur when an organism is unable to properly manage these states, and lives in a state of perpetual sympathetic dominance, common when a human has become unable to enter into parasympathetic relaxation due to external stress, poor diets, bad relationships, trauma, etc, etc...

Gotta commend you on that post. I enjoyed reading that.

I practice what’s called “The Silent Prayer.” Many can call it mindfulness, meditation, etc. but it’s helped me to be still, know God, and to let ALL thoughts, emotions, and memories of the past or future, pass. And to do all of this without judgment of any of it. From being conscious and observing myself I came across poly vagal theory, which is pretty much what you described with your para/symp breakdown. The point you made about being in and out of para/symp sounds similar to being in the Alpha brainwave range (8hz-12hz), which is ultimately a state of being. You’re acting just enough to get what you need without getting stressed, while still being grounded and present. (This is all my observation btw, so don’t take this as a concrete fact.)

I just want to point out, whether you’re in a sympathetic dominant state, or you’re in dorsal vagal (freeze) or ventral vagal (social engagement) an individual is still left with beliefs, morals, values, and ultimately thoughts that drive our “identities.” That state of being I mentioned is threatened by the thoughts inside of us. We do not create or make thoughts. We don’t know where they come from, yet believe that we make them, and identify with them as if that’s “us.” Thoughts are evil spirits, and when you learn to be aware and let them pass, then you can truly be free.

Our fake identities and perceptions of self prevent us from being present because it keeps us trapped in the mind, constantly thinking. Thinking is merely a tool, but we aren’t supposed to live by constantly thinking. We should be living in the present moment and in the present we are able to see what to do.

The point I’m trying to make with this thread is that there is a peace all can achieve, and I think many people here on this forum are seeking it, but are getting caught up in going down rabbit holes they don’t need to be going down.

Instead of trying to learn everything about human physiology to create a new identity, how about letting go of all identities, being present, and THEN letting the physiology return to the way it was designed to be?

 

[Runenight201]

Gotta commend you on that post. I enjoyed reading that.

I practice what’s called “The Silent Prayer.” Many can call it mindfulness, meditation, etc. but it’s helped me to be still, know God, and to let ALL thoughts, emotions, and memories of the past or future, pass. And to do all of this without judgment of any of it. From being conscious and observing myself I came across poly vagal theory, which is pretty much what you described with your para/symp breakdown. The point you made about being in and out of para/symp sounds similar to being in the Alpha brainwave range (8hz-12hz), which is ultimately a state of being. You’re acting just enough to get what you need without getting stressed, while still being grounded and present. (This is all my observation btw, so don’t take this as a concrete fact.)

I just want to point out, whether you’re in a sympathetic dominant state, or you’re in dorsal vagal (freeze) or ventral vagal (social engagement) an individual is still left with beliefs, morals, values, and ultimately thoughts that drive our “identities.” That state of being I mentioned is threatened by the thoughts inside of us. We do not create or make thoughts. We don’t know where they come from, yet believe that we make them, and identify with them as if that’s “us.” Thoughts are evil spirits, and when you learn to be aware and let them pass, then you can truly be free.

Our fake identities and perceptions of self prevent us from being present because it keeps us trapped in the mind, constantly thinking. Thinking is merely a tool, but we aren’t supposed to live by constantly thinking. We should be living in the present moment and in the present we are able to see what to do.

The point I’m trying to make with this thread is that there is a peace all can achieve, and I think many people here on this forum are seeking it, but are getting caught up in going down rabbit holes they don’t need to be going down.

Instead of trying to learn everything about human physiology to create a new identity, how about letting go of all identities, being present, and THEN letting the physiology return to the way it was designed to be?

I certainly believe there is a lot of good that can come from learning how to master your own mind, as yes, many times certain thought or desires may be maladaptive or self-destructive. At times when I was very sick, I no longer could trust many thoughts of mine, for however mentally ill I was, I had enough self-awareness to know that my thoughts were pathological and thus not to be trusted. However, this is a very incapable and non-functional way of being. So while building self-awareness over the mind and our thought patterns is critical, I disagree with the notion that thoughts are evil and we should let all thoughts pass. Many thoughts certainly can be bad and pathological, but , ultimately, we have to act, and it is through our thoughts that we act right? I feel hunger in my stomach, and I then have the thought, I should eat, and I thus go and do what is necessary to put nourishment into my being. And throughout that whole process, I am continuously problem solving and thinking in order to acquire the resources and prepare them properly so that I can eat. I cannot simply act without thinking at some level. And those thoughts that help direct me towards vitality are certainly good thoughts!

So, rather than viewing all thoughts as fleeting electrical activity that should be observed and let go, I rather see thinking as an aspect of consciousness that has to be trained, developed, and refined, so that the thinking can be first and foremost functional. So that thinking is aligned with that which orients an individual to proper ways of being. Thinking that maintains an individuals health, vitality, and connection with this world and others.

In regards to identities, I would agree that much of the identity that a typical modern human develops is "artificial" or "fake", and even if those terms aren't acceptable, I can at the least say much of it is culturally driven. In either case, I'm not sure how one can ever let go of your own identity. Merely be observing your conscious experience and witnessing yourself as separate from someone else, an identity has to be formed. It could be a very nondescript one, but it is inevitable that it will begin to become refined, as the person we each identify with is defined by our physical characteristics at the least. Achieving an "ego death" cannot be a permanent state of being because how else would we seriously expect to operate in this world in such a manner? There is obviously a distinction between different life forms, each with its own agency, and while we all are constructed of the same organic material and rely on the same resources, we have our own distinct conscious experiences. One human being can be at the top of vitality, where as another one is dying of cancer.

 

[Jib]

Poor health and chronic suffering due to that poor health is a great opportunity to start building a relationship with God.

Particularly when they're to an extent that we have no control over the outcome. There are points where catastrophic health issues may occur and no amount of reading or visiting doctors or even surgeons will fix anything at all. It's a horrible place to be.

I've been there recently. I find it strange that I've been practically anti-religion for a very long time, and yet suddenly feel drawn to this idea of having a personal relationship with God. Hypocrite or not, the idea of having a personal relationship with God is the only thing that's brought me a single shred of comfort in these times.

"The day may come when all that is human, man and woman, will fall off from you, as they did from Him. Let His strength be yours. Be independent of them all now. The Father is with you. Look to Him, and He will save you."
-F.W. Robertson, "The Loneliness of Christ"

It's a strange place to be.

I've had health problems my whole life, but never anything that felt like it was beyond my ability to hack. That has changed recently, quite drastically. The NLP techniques, the health and nutrition knowledge, the physical movement and exercise knowledge, the lifestyle knowledge. It all seems to have amounted to little more than a pile of dust with the health issues I've been facing currently. Came upon suddenly and have been ravaging me in a way I've never experienced with any other health issue in my life.

"He is best prepared for trouble who sees it coming from afar." Another great quote by Robertson. I think in times of good health, it's important for us to remember how we might be if we were in poor or even catastrophic health. What would be the nature of our thoughts and feelings? Our sense of purpose in life? How much of our life have we made contingent upon good health and good fortune? And how much have we sacrificed our ability to trust in God in exchange for trusting in ourselves and all these worldly things that can fail us in a heartbeat?

And what will we do if and when they fail us? What will we do, how will we react, if our own efforts to save ourselves fails? If other people's efforts to save us also fail? What happens then? What happens internally to us -- emotionally, spiritually?

Just thoughts from a hypocrite. Even in horrible health I'm still thinking about my sexual dysfunction from that psych med years ago. Never got better. My desires are fairly simple: to be able to work out again, to have good health again, to be able to have sex again, to be able to enjoy good food without worry again. What's the plan after that? Not much.

My desires for this suffering to go away is mostly so I can pursue hedonism again. I even lament that I never pursued hedonism as fully as I wanted to. I never "got it out of my system." And I am simply feeling sorry for myself that my health is failing and I feel like my life is over in my early 30's before even having lived it.

This is not a sob story however. Think of it as a mirror being held up to you and your life, whoever you are who's reading this at this moment. I say "personal relationship with God" as if I know what that means, but it's something I can't explain. Just something I feel I have to share and tell you that it's worth considering.

I'll tell you this much: health problems are perhaps the loneliest physical experience we can have. When you're really in the pit of it, there is nothing anyone on this earth can do to help you. And what a lonely place that is to be. And failing health, whether it's an instant or something that creeps up slowly and insidiously, is something we're all headed for. Guaranteed. It is going to happen.

It's worth contemplating when we're in better health. Build those connections and pathways now. One thing that comes to mind is what we can do for other people. This comment is a very paltry way of doing that, for example. Nothing but a random post on a random forum. What value could this possibly have? But it is something I am choosing to commit some time to right now, and something that I feel has meaning. More than whatever I did last to make money, more than the phone calls to the doctors or surgeons, more than whatever meager efforts I'm making to squeeze what little enjoyment it seems I have left out of life at this moment.

So if me posting this isn't for hedonism, then what is it for? I suppose doing something I feel is truly meaningful. Like Ray writing all that he did. What benefit did he personally get out of that? I'm sure he enjoyed it, but his goal was to teach and spread his knowledge and information to help other people. The intention is what matters.

Anyway, my apologies for rambling. Funny how posts work. The OP's post triggered all these seemingly random thoughts and I figured I would share them, for better or worse.

I do think it's appropriate that on a health forum we should bring some attention to the fact that our health is destined to fail at some point. The mechanisms by which our lives are sustained will fail eventually, and we'll return to wherever we came from. It isn't fun or sexy to think about these things. It's anything but. Maybe that's why people tend not to until they're in some sort of critical condition where thinking about the 'fun stuff' is not possible.

As for spiritual causes for metabolic illness. I feel like I have a lot of book knowledge on this. Plenty. I could write about it for hours. All the years of practicing NLP and working on my own and other people's memories and emotions, sometimes with phenomenal results. Again...it all seems to add up to little more than a pile of dust in the face of the health problems I've been having lately. I certainly am praying they'll pass and this will all have been like a bad dream. The lessons are relevant nonetheless.

Anyway. Thought provoking post. Apologies again for the rambling. I'm not in my right mind at the moment. If we're talking metabolic stress, I've been unable to eat and am in quite a calorie deficit, and am assuredly running on stress hormones. Temperatures have been rock bottom. You may think of spirituality or having a personal relationship with God as a way of training your mind, emotions and spirit to perceive and react in a particular, more hopeful way -- in the face of physical health problems, including a damaged/slowed metabolism, which is concomitant with any health problem that I can think of. It always seems to involve a slowing of the metabolism and a shutting down of peripheral functions in favor of supporting more vital functions, at the expense -- ironically -- of vitality. Unless we define "vitality" as the functioning of the organs most pertinent to our immediate survival.

Think about your own health failing in the future, and have compassion for people going through that now. I've felt quite selfish lamenting my own failing health while my friend's mother is dying of what really appears to be terminal cancer. Just had an ostomy bag placed and everything after over a year of multiple rounds of chemo and other horrible treatments.

It's really made me examine how selfish I've been and how much I've shut off my empathy and concern for other people. Quite a lesson to me to find myself begging God for mercy and help, as nothing anyone else has done has done anything to relieve my suffering -- and yet I've turned my back on so many people in my life that needed help and didn't think twice about it.

Anyway, again, forgive me for the rambling. I might as well be a case study in what happens when the body starts shutting down. These things are all explainable in secular terms but not spiritual. God is a mystery that we should not lose touch with and I think we should strive for a personal relationship with. Who we are when we're alone and have been abandoned by the comforts other people and the world in general can offer us is an interesting matter to meditate on.

 

[Atman]

I would call it psychological instead of spiritual, but in essence I agree with you.
People on this forum are very focused on diet and supplements, i.e. what kind of substance you put through your intestines.
On the other side, people very seldomly talk about their psychology here, what kind of work their are doing, how they spend their free time, and how the way they think about the world might change their physiology.
In part this is due to the fact that most people don't actually read Peat's work but instead rely on secondary sources like this forum or interviews of other people.
This leaves most of his articles on psychology and "mind and tissue" in particular untouched and the impression is made, that Peat was this weird diet and supplement guru.

 

[Herbie]

Starting off with taking an authoritive opinion and talking down to people on the forum as if your up in the sky yourself and not on the same planet as everyone else is pretty annoying and won't gain respect or change anything.

It's delusional to ignore the environment and believe an invisible entity will make all ones problems go away.

People need a strong organism and energy to face "spiritual problems"

Some people will face the spiritual issues first some will face the physical issues first, everyone does it differently because we are unique, there is no right or wrong way it's just a journey to learn.

 

[Bozidar]

Are people on this forum aware that they are trying to use Ray’s work on metabolism as a means to overcome what are spiritual issues?

Example, people often refer to depression as a chemical imbalance. Yes, you can be metabolically depressed, but if you identify with the thoughts that YOU are depressed, then no matter how great your stack is to help you metabolically, you’ve already identified with it and that’s a much larger issue. To which you can not overcome that on your own efforts without God.

Anyone else notice this in themselves or others?

Are people on this forum aware that they are trying to use Ray’s work on metabolism as a means to overcome what are spiritual issues?

Well yes, they are, but you say it like those two things are mutually exclusive. Spiritual issues and dieting. They are not.
I would say 90% of peoples problems are spiritual(I would better use an expression "lifestyle related" because its more actionable).
I live alone, work as a dishwasher in a hotels kitchen. My work colleges are either old, ill, retarded or all of these things together. They don't speak my mother language, speak no German and very bad English. It is not possible to interact with them. Just frustration. I spend half a day and half a night in that hell hole. It makes me very depressed. I am also getting mentally ill in the last few years. I don't really have energy or desire to pray to god or to think how to move out of this. Am I doomed? Well you see, I probably wouldn't be writing you an answer to this if I wouldn't have eaten some dark chocolate just an hour ago. Its quite uplifting and some nice thoughts start flowing through, maybe I even find a solution, maybe there is hope.
If you say you have spiritual problems, its very murky, cloudy and you cannot really take an action on it, but if you swipe that left and say that you have very bad lifestyle then you can do something about it and ingesting different kind of substances can give you insights into how to change life.
There is nothing mystical in "spiritual problems" and its not mutually exclusive with dieting. Its actually synergizing. There is a lot of broken and ill people here, me including, but dieting is one tool to steer yourself to solutions.

 

[Peater]

Great reply. So do you think it’s possible that focusing more on the spiritual issues internally will bring about the good metabolism naturally to support it?

Ray wasn't a fan of supps. That said I do see your point in your original post. Although in my case I think I just have to accept my brain was ruined by poor pre-natal environment, premature birth and vaccines. Ray himself said vaccines can cause irreversible damage to the brain, (and the brain is the centre of ones consciousness). My words in brackets, not Rays.

 

[chickasawlane]

Poor health and chronic suffering due to that poor health is a great opportunity to start building a relationship with God.

Particularly when they're to an extent that we have no control over the outcome. There are points where catastrophic health issues may occur and no amount of reading or visiting doctors or even surgeons will fix anything at all. It's a horrible place to be.

I've been there recently. I find it strange that I've been practically anti-religion for a very long time, and yet suddenly feel drawn to this idea of having a personal relationship with God. Hypocrite or not, the idea of having a personal relationship with God is the only thing that's brought me a single shred of comfort in these times.

"The day may come when all that is human, man and woman, will fall off from you, as they did from Him. Let His strength be yours. Be independent of them all now. The Father is with you. Look to Him, and He will save you."
-F.W. Robertson, "The Loneliness of Christ"

It's a strange place to be.

I've had health problems my whole life, but never anything that felt like it was beyond my ability to hack. That has changed recently, quite drastically. The NLP techniques, the health and nutrition knowledge, the physical movement and exercise knowledge, the lifestyle knowledge. It all seems to have amounted to little more than a pile of dust with the health issues I've been facing currently. Came upon suddenly and have been ravaging me in a way I've never experienced with any other health issue in my life.

"He is best prepared for trouble who sees it coming from afar." Another great quote by Robertson. I think in times of good health, it's important for us to remember how we might be if we were in poor or even catastrophic health. What would be the nature of our thoughts and feelings? Our sense of purpose in life? How much of our life have we made contingent upon good health and good fortune? And how much have we sacrificed our ability to trust in God in exchange for trusting in ourselves and all these worldly things that can fail us in a heartbeat?

And what will we do if and when they fail us? What will we do, how will we react, if our own efforts to save ourselves fails? If other people's efforts to save us also fail? What happens then? What happens internally to us -- emotionally, spiritually?

Just thoughts from a hypocrite. Even in horrible health I'm still thinking about my sexual dysfunction from that psych med years ago. Never got better. My desires are fairly simple: to be able to work out again, to have good health again, to be able to have sex again, to be able to enjoy good food without worry again. What's the plan after that? Not much.

My desires for this suffering to go away is mostly so I can pursue hedonism again. I even lament that I never pursued hedonism as fully as I wanted to. I never "got it out of my system." And I am simply feeling sorry for myself that my health is failing and I feel like my life is over in my early 30's before even having lived it.

This is not a sob story however. Think of it as a mirror being held up to you and your life, whoever you are who's reading this at this moment. I say "personal relationship with God" as if I know what that means, but it's something I can't explain. Just something I feel I have to share and tell you that it's worth considering.

I'll tell you this much: health problems are perhaps the loneliest physical experience we can have. When you're really in the pit of it, there is nothing anyone on this earth can do to help you. And what a lonely place that is to be. And failing health, whether it's an instant or something that creeps up slowly and insidiously, is something we're all headed for. Guaranteed. It is going to happen.

It's worth contemplating when we're in better health. Build those connections and pathways now. One thing that comes to mind is what we can do for other people. This comment is a very paltry way of doing that, for example. Nothing but a random post on a random forum. What value could this possibly have? But it is something I am choosing to commit some time to right now, and something that I feel has meaning. More than whatever I did last to make money, more than the phone calls to the doctors or surgeons, more than whatever meager efforts I'm making to squeeze what little enjoyment it seems I have left out of life at this moment.

So if me posting this isn't for hedonism, then what is it for? I suppose doing something I feel is truly meaningful. Like Ray writing all that he did. What benefit did he personally get out of that? I'm sure he enjoyed it, but his goal was to teach and spread his knowledge and information to help other people. The intention is what matters.

Anyway, my apologies for rambling. Funny how posts work. The OP's post triggered all these seemingly random thoughts and I figured I would share them, for better or worse.

I do think it's appropriate that on a health forum we should bring some attention to the fact that our health is destined to fail at some point. The mechanisms by which our lives are sustained will fail eventually, and we'll return to wherever we came from. It isn't fun or sexy to think about these things. It's anything but. Maybe that's why people tend not to until they're in some sort of critical condition where thinking about the 'fun stuff' is not possible.

As for spiritual causes for metabolic illness. I feel like I have a lot of book knowledge on this. Plenty. I could write about it for hours. All the years of practicing NLP and working on my own and other people's memories and emotions, sometimes with phenomenal results. Again...it all seems to add up to little more than a pile of dust in the face of the health problems I've been having lately. I certainly am praying they'll pass and this will all have been like a bad dream. The lessons are relevant nonetheless.

Anyway. Thought provoking post. Apologies again for the rambling. I'm not in my right mind at the moment. If we're talking metabolic stress, I've been unable to eat and am in quite a calorie deficit, and am assuredly running on stress hormones. Temperatures have been rock bottom. You may think of spirituality or having a personal relationship with God as a way of training your mind, emotions and spirit to perceive and react in a particular, more hopeful way -- in the face of physical health problems, including a damaged/slowed metabolism, which is concomitant with any health problem that I can think of. It always seems to involve a slowing of the metabolism and a shutting down of peripheral functions in favor of supporting more vital functions, at the expense -- ironically -- of vitality. Unless we define "vitality" as the functioning of the organs most pertinent to our immediate survival.

Think about your own health failing in the future, and have compassion for people going through that now. I've felt quite selfish lamenting my own failing health while my friend's mother is dying of what really appears to be terminal cancer. Just had an ostomy bag placed and everything after over a year of multiple rounds of chemo and other horrible treatments.

It's really made me examine how selfish I've been and how much I've shut off my empathy and concern for other people. Quite a lesson to me to find myself begging God for mercy and help, as nothing anyone else has done has done anything to relieve my suffering -- and yet I've turned my back on so many people in my life that needed help and didn't think twice about it.

Anyway, again, forgive me for the rambling. I might as well be a case study in what happens when the body starts shutting down. These things are all explainable in secular terms but not spiritual. God is a mystery that we should not lose touch with and I think we should strive for a personal relationship with. Who we are when we're alone and have been abandoned by the comforts other people and the world in general can offer us is an interesting matter to meditate on.

You mentioned how people sacrifice their trust in God by instead trusting themselves and worldly things (such as metabolic knowledge.) That’s the whole sentiment behind starting this thread. To get people to think of maybe they’re putting their trust in the wrong places to get an outcome they don’t need, such as trying to better their sexual function to impress a woman, or flatter their own ego. That will never bring you peace. It’s all vanity.

I’m glad you recognize you want a personal relationship with God. I’m telling you from experience, if you truly are seeking Him, He will reveal himself to you, and make ways for you to develop that relationship deeper. Knowledge about God is not enough. Being still, and knowing Him and His Spirit is everything. You realize real quick you cannot do anything on your own.

I was diagnosed “bi-polar” many years ago and went to a psychiatrist and was on Lithium for 5 years. This was all after many years of having schizophrenic, manic, anxious, depressive, panic episodes. I’ve been through a lot mentally and physically. In going through that decade of pain, I relied on being aware throughout all the episodes to get me out of them. Constant awareness of self led me to realizing yes, there was definitely something physiologically going on, but spiritually, the thoughts and beliefs I had were precipitating all of it.

When I went on Lithium, I created a new identity in my mind. Yes, I was able to enjoy life more because I was relatively stable, but there were still a lot of things that would set me off and I’d lose myself because I was very attached to the thoughts in my mind. For example, while I was traveling the world and having a great time, I still harbored so much hatred and anger towards my mom and dad. There was no amount of sex and food that could have resolved that for me. I became so aware of it over time that I eventually realized I needed to go and forgive them, and apologizing for hating them. This really was the beginning of understanding that spiritually I was never going to supplement my way out of that.

Stay conscious of yourself. You’re going in the right direction. I’m so glad this thread was able to help bring some clarity and direction for you.

 

[chickasawlane]

Well yes, they are, but you say it like those two things are mutually exclusive. Spiritual issues and dieting. They are not.
I would say 90% of peoples problems are spiritual(I would better use an expression "lifestyle related" because its more actionable).
I live alone, work as a dishwasher in a hotels kitchen. My work colleges are either old, ill, retarded or all of these things together. They don't speak my mother language, speak no German and very bad English. It is not possible to interact with them. Just frustration. I spend half a day and half a night in that hell hole. It makes me very depressed. I am also getting mentally ill in the last few years. I don't really have energy or desire to pray to god or to think how to move out of this. Am I doomed? Well you see, I probably wouldn't be writing you an answer to this if I wouldn't have eaten some dark chocolate just an hour ago. Its quite uplifting and some nice thoughts start flowing through, maybe I even find a solution, maybe there is hope.
If you say you have spiritual problems, its very murky, cloudy and you cannot really take an action on it, but if you swipe that left and say that you have very bad lifestyle then you can do something about it and ingesting different kind of substances can give you insights into how to change life.
There is nothing mystical in "spiritual problems" and its not mutually exclusive with dieting. Its actually synergizing. There is a lot of broken and ill people here, me including, but dieting is one tool to steer yourself to solutions.

You’ve made a lot of associations with being “mentally ill,” “depressed,” “broken.”

You can have a “broken” metabolism sure, but if you believe your soul is broken, and in your soul you’re depressed, then that is a spiritual problem.

Are you aware that you are identifying with these ideas about yourself? I know for many years I used to think the same way you did, until I became conscious enough that I was building an identity around being this way. You can’t be free if you have this negative image of yourself.

I think that’s problem number one that needs to be addressed before trying to find out what food is going to give you uplifting thoughts to find a solution to take action. You can save yourself a lot of time and heartache by just going within, and seeing why you are feeling this way. Stay conscious when you are speaking, I guarantee you’ll see what I’m talking about if you’re not already aware of this.

You also mentioned you don’t have the energy to pray. Society at large has gotten prayer wrong. You don’t need to sit down and have a full on conversation with God all the time. In fact, no one has any idea what they actually need to pray for. That’s why we’re supposed to just be still, and let The Holy Spirit intercede on our behalf.

I understand your frustration with your work situation, but I think you should ask yourself why are you allowing the frustration to take hold? Are you expecting something in return from it? Being reliant on a situation to be perfect for you to feel something is not the best approach. Just going to point out again that these are the spiritual issues I’m talking about.

Have you ever heard of the Stockdale Paradox? You may resonate with this:

“You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”

Hope this helps.

 

[chickasawlane]

I would call it psychological instead of spiritual, but in essence I agree with you.
People on this forum are very focused on diet and supplements, i.e. what kind of substance you put through your intestines.
On the other side, people very seldomly talk about their psychology here, what kind of work their are doing, how they spend their free time, and how the way they think about the world might change their physiology.
In part this is due to the fact that most people don't actually read Peat's work but instead rely on secondary sources like this forum or interviews of other people.
This leaves most of his articles on psychology and "mind and tissue" in particular untouched and the impression is made, that Peat was this weird diet and supplement guru.

There isn’t enough fellowship in my opinion on this forum regarding what you just said. That’s why I’m trying to start a conversation about it.

Once I came across Ray’s work I noticed I was “blaming my thyroid” for a lot of things. That’s still being a victim. Same spiritual issue I was dealing with years before, now just masked with a new group of substances to obsess over.

 

[chickasawlane]

Starting off with taking an authoritive opinion and talking down to people on the forum as if your up in the sky yourself and not on the same planet as everyone else is pretty annoying and won't gain respect or change anything.

It's delusional to ignore the environment and believe an invisible entity will make all ones problems go away.

People need a strong organism and energy to face "spiritual problems"

Some people will face the spiritual issues first some will face the physical issues first, everyone does it differently because we are unique, there is no right or wrong way it's just a journey to learn.

Interesting you think I’m being Authoritarian when I’m trying to have a dialogue with members of this forum. Tell me more about what made you come to this conclusion.

I’m very aware of environmental impacts on health and wellness. I also think that if someone has a meltdown because they touched a receipt and think the BPA is going to ruin their hormones in a split second, that’s delusional. That’s a spiritual issue, not a physical one.

I’m not saying go out and rub receipts all over your body, but if you’re constantly blaming things outside of you for why you’re feeling a certain way, maybe it’s time to take a closer look at yourself. You really don’t need boundless energy to do that.

 

[davidgraham]

I know people wheelchair bound to fully recovered through neuroplasticity alone. Programs including dnrs, gupta, ans rewire etc.

Prior to peat I explored neuroplasticity and did all the he above programs. Whilst they had some impact in my physical health improved fatigue and so they did nothing to improve me in a biological level...as in did nothing for my connective tissue disease, hypothyroidism etc