Why Is There So Much Soluble Fibre In Human Breast Milk?

Amazoniac · Jun 30, 2015

As people age, and the immune system weakens, those infections start to show up. Maybe they are under control right now, but it's definitely a risk. Between eating straight soil or fermented foods, I would choose the foods, because when bacteria thrive, they release by-products that create an undesirable environment for eukaryotes (worms, etc), excessively acidic for ex. And their populations pboythepinnacleofevolution increase much faster than more complex life forms. And our immune system can handle most of the bacterias without much problem..

YuraCZ · Jun 30, 2015

I need some kefir enema today. ^_-

Amazoniac · Jun 30, 2015

I need some pboy edema everyday.

Stuart · Jun 30, 2015

Amazoniac said:
As people age, and the immune system weakens, those infections start to show up. Maybe they are under control right now, but it's definitely a risk. Between eating straight soil or fermented foods, I would choose the foods, because when bacteria thrive, they release by-products that create an undesirable environment for eukaryotes (worms, etc), excessively acidic for ex. And their populations pboythepinnacleofevolution increase much faster than more complex life forms. And our immune system can handle most of the bacterias without much problem..

Amazoniac, it's occurred to me that you actually ARE Pboy. In the metaphysical sense of course. Muse or nemesis. It boggles the mind - in a good way.

In any case, I was struck by how Hadza hunter gatherers who toss in the stone age life, move to town and stop eating as much dirt actually experience a GREATER parasite load.
That's interesting about the effect of aging on the immune system.
Also, although broad spectrum antibiotics decimate the colon microbiota, modern anti parasitcs (the kind you give to your pets and kids) don't affect the microbiome whatsoever.

Stuart · Jun 30, 2015

YuraCZ said:
Kefir CAN.. Btw what you think about bentonite clay? I take 1 heaped teaspoon per day with psyllium husk powder for detox.. I also want to start eat dirt. But which location is safest? Forest?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'Kefir CAN..'. I think organic farms may be the safest, because there's a rigorous certification process. Maybe a wilderness like Patagonia would be pretty good too.
No idea about bentonite clay as an internal detox. I have used it as a face pack though. Extraordinary sensation. And I used it to stop my dam from leaking. Clay is interesting stuff. The particle size is so small.
if you do find some good dirt and take the plunge, one a the things you will notice is that healthy dirt (if it smells pleasant) actually is almost tasteless.

tara · Jun 30, 2015

Stuart said:
YuraCZ said:

Kefir CAN.. Btw what you think about bentonite clay? I take 1 heaped teaspoon per day with psyllium husk powder for detox.. I also want to start eat dirt. But which location is safest? Forest?

Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'Kefir CAN..'. I think organic farms may be the safest, because there's a rigorous certification process. Maybe a wilderness like Patagonia would be pretty good too.
No idea about bentonite clay as an internal detox. I have used it as a face pack though. Extraordinary sensation. And I used it to stop my dam from leaking. Clay is interesting stuff. The particle size is so small.
if you do find some good dirt and take the plunge, one a the things you will notice is that healthy dirt (if it smells pleasant) actually is almost tasteless.

Organic certified might be safest.
Otherwise, pick somewhere where you can find out enough about the history to be reasonably confident there is not too much contamination from historical hazardous chemicals, eg lead (from petrol, paint, pesticides), arsenic (pesticides, timber treatment), persistent organic pesticides, etc.
I had no qualms about my kids (and myself) getting a bit of soil in us by grazing in the garden till I found out about historic uses of the land, and possible remaining contamination.

narouz · Jun 30, 2015

EnoreeG said:
Narouz, if you had your appendix out, there is more chance of SIBO, and definite difficulty in getting over it. Did you already know this? I didn't, but I just searched now and found that this is common, as the operation to remove it often causes your ileocecal valve to not be as functional as normal, and you may suffer almost continual leakage up into the small intestine. Read some of the reader comments here:

SIBO—What causes it and why

Thanks, Enoree!
I'll check that out. :)

oxidation_is_normal · Jun 30, 2015

pboy said:
ive tried many things in the past, that's how I know what im doing now is better. The gut brain connection is mostly a stress response thing, it can be serotonin, histamine, or other things. THe gut doesn't generate catecholamines, thyroid, testosterone, progesterone or any of the beneficial hormones, it just generates stress signals or immune intermediates if its offended. I don't ignore human nature, in fact by following it to the fullest ive realized whats best. Im not talking about someone's theory of human apes or whatever, im talking my actual self, my nature, here now, whatever that is. Fiber is inpalatable by itself. Milk and sugar brews taste great, if you add fiber to it it just is annoying. What nature are you trusting? Does adding gooey mucus like tasteless bacteria/yeast make what you eat more palatable, or taste better?

What do you mean "the gut brain connection is mostly a stress response thing? That's like saying, "oh the nervous system is kinda a movement thing." It's not just some extra pipe or something! There is also plenty of interactions and metabolisms of the human endocrine system by the gut microbiome.

oxidation_is_normal · Jun 30, 2015

pboy said:
lol

get your head out of your **** dude, start living and having some balls to test things, don't just talk about theories. What beneficial results has you or anyone had from doing all the bacteria s***....I don't think a single person has really got super doped happy and healthy doing that

you want referances rather than personal tested over a lot of time actual experience...you're hopeless if that's the case, you're basically living in some weird reality if that's how you live. Try stuff yourself, its too much to explain. The point is my health is great and it doesn't matter what is going on, if there is bacteria, if there isn't, what type, whatever....it doesn't matter. What I do to stay healthy, that kind of s*** isn't even in my consideration at all. That's the point im trying to make. You will get no where thinking about that kind of thing, its irrelivent. You are pretty far from what it really takes to be happy or healthy in life if that's the type of s*** on your mind. A lot of stuff isn't even food or diet based, something as small as gut bacteria stuff is like...worthless to even consider. Eat a diet of fruit and dairy and it doesn't matter if theres bacteria in your colon or not, trying to manipulate that directly and mechanically isn't the answer to anything

maybe I have a thriving colony of 'good bacteria' ...who knows, im just saying its not really something to focus on, focus on what you can sense taste and feel, and that will naturally regulate itself

This doesn't work as a response to debate because it is personal. I've been testing my assumptions vigorously for over a decade with my own health. Anyone who wants references is hopeless? Ray Peat is about finding useful patterns for all of biology, not just one dude's experience. Therefore, if two experiences differ vastly with, say, dietary fiber, then we need to look at more than one causal pathway. Not just assume the guy who eats less fiber is "right." Therefore, you need to see the difference between someone attacking you/your health and someone attacking your ideas/conduct. "You'll get nowhere thinking about this kind of thing" - so you're writing an argument against thinking... Doesn't that defeat itself? And calling me not happy because of all of this - from now on I will only respond to claims and try to ignore ad hominem stuff.

"Eat a diet of fruit and dairy and it doesn't matter if theres bacteria in your colon or not, trying to manipulate that directly and mechanically isn't the answer to anything" - again with the universal statements. You know how many people are allergic to both of those? Maybe allergies have a basis in the gut and we can repair it with various processes?

oxidation_is_normal · Jun 30, 2015

pboy said:
na im good, ill tell you what though...ill save any scraps I get and send them to you guys so you can eat and feed your bacteria colonies you are harboring purposefully in your colons

its actually really weird how adamant people get about growing bacteria and what not...bacteria grows on things that are rotting, it makes no sense to do that to yourself on purpose when you don't need to...I mean its incredibly simple, but whatever...do whatever you all want, its your consequences. Ive already said basically all I can in this topic, intelligent people will choose what to try, others can go down your route

(btw, gut fermentation size and brain size are directly anti correlated)

I don't follow. Are you implying your brain is bigger or your gut is smaller? You don't get to support your conclusions with a paper which actually states that the "large brain is compensated for by decreased gut size" without a little more than that (The Expensive Tissue Hypothesis of Aiello and Wheeler). This is also to do with less energy-intensive gut, so it is worth researching what is causing more efficient guts. Since you don't get to shrink gut size over a single life time - doing so would probably be very stressful - it would be good to know that the relationship of the microbiome (something you will not get rid of) and your diet are paired in a way which reduces the load on the rest of your body be doing more bacterial work.

Also implying that you have fewer bacteria than the rest of us is silly without evidence. Bacteria do NOT just grow on things that are rotting, as you claim. Bacteria are mutualistic, and they have always been so long as humans have been around. The largest case of this mutualism with humans is probably the microbiome...

Maybe your health really is so much better, pboy, but without actually knowing why we are not going to be able to emulate the way your body is working.

Stuart · Jun 30, 2015

narouz said:
EnoreeG said:

Narouz, if you had your appendix out, there is more chance of SIBO, and definite difficulty in getting over it. Did you already know this? I didn't, but I just searched now and found that this is common, as the operation to remove it often causes your ileocecal valve to not be as functional as normal, and you may suffer almost continual leakage up into the small intestine. Read some of the reader comments here:

SIBO—What causes it and why

Click to expand...

Thanks, Enoree!
I'll check that out. :)

Me too EnoreeG, thanks. I had no idea about the ileocecal valve appendectonomy complication. And mine was whipped our when I was ten (I'm 56 now) It could explain decades of SIBO symptoms, although I was never officially diagnosed. And back in those days , I think it was done pretty roughly. Surgery wasn't nearly as precise as it is now. Still have my tonsils though.
It's a pity you can't do Ileocecal valve muscle exercises in the same way you can strengthen your pelvic floor.
One thing that has kept that appendectonomy hospital stay really vivid for me ever since is that I had a terrifying nightmare that recurs occasionally - whenever I'm really stressed - to this day. I think of it as my pet nightmare.

oxidation_is_normal · Jun 30, 2015

Stuart said:
EnoreeG said:

Stuart, do you think the skin/scalp/nail afflictions reflect excretion of toxins that invaded via the gut?

Click to expand...

Probably. Intestinal permeability is the first casualty of a microbiome that is forced to eat the endothelium rather than the fermentable fiber coming in. And once you have intestinal permeability, you're even less tolerant of fermentable fiber. It seems like an awful vicious circle to me.
What I find most interesting about all this is that the problems seem to be cross generational. I can recognize the same impulsiveness in the behaviour of my mother's maternal family line ( and it's maternally transmitted - by the birth canal innoculation process) as I expererienced myself for all those years I was a runaway column of yeast overgrowths. Just getting my memory back (both short and long term) has been an amazingly gratifying result of getting my microbiome back in shape.

Have you ever had a food sensitivity / allergy tests?

Stuart · Jun 30, 2015

oxidation_is_normal said:
[
"Eat a diet of fruit and dairy and it doesn't matter if theres bacteria in your colon or not, trying to manipulate that directly and mechanically isn't the answer to anything" - again with the universal statements. You know how many people are allergic to both of those? Maybe allergies have a basis in the gut and we can repair it with various processes?

Actually when I first started reading Peat I realized that if you eat fruit you're automatically consuming a lot of pectin. And pectin is one of the most microbiome friendly fermentable fibers available. Even Pboy eats fruit. so his microbiome will be fine, in spite of his best attempts to deny it intellectually.
Any Peatarian who eats fruit will do likewise. It does seem rather odd then to argue that pectin specifically, and fermentable fiber generally is somehow harmful.
It has even occurred to me that the whole thing might be a mischievous joke by Dr. Peat himself - ensuring that followers of his dietary principles do get at least a minimum amount of fermentable fiber to keep their colon microbiota from being too neglected. He's an interesting chap, that's for sure.

Stuart · Jun 30, 2015

oxidation_is_normal said:
Have you ever had a food sensitivity / allergy tests?

I haven't, mainly because I've never felt like any particular food was causing problems. I was always a bit sensitive to contact with a particular kind of switchgrass endemic here in Australia (we call it 'Green Panic') in spring.
But for me at least that has been completely resolved by upping the fermentable fiber/SBO's. So my experience is that there is a strong connection between microbiome health and allergies.

I've seesawed my whole life between diarrhea and constipation. 2 months in with the fermentable fiber I suddenly realized I was a Bristol poster boy. Day after day of the elusive clean break.
You'll have to pardon my enthusiasm for fermentable fiber. For me it's been a game changer. Just as recently really slashing my Pufa consumption has also taken my health (curiously enough my tooth/gum health particularly) to a higher level too. This health journey we're all on is pretty exciting, isn't it?
And I'm the first to admit that I owe Dr. Peat a lot.

oxidation_is_normal · Jul 1, 2015

So Fiber's the ***t? OK, silly joke :)

I'm in Australia as well for now and I just discovered your awesome store "AboutLife" - they even have Great Lakes Gelatin in stock!

Stuart · Jul 1, 2015

oxidation_is_normal said:
So Fiber's the s***? OK, silly joke :)

I'm in Australia as well for now and I just discovered your awesome store "AboutLife" - they even have Great Lakes Gelatin in stock!

I thought you must be. No States sider would post at our ungodly hours. What's 'Great Lakes' gelatin? I just use Mackenzies powdered gelatin from Woolworths. Even give it to my dogs. Is it no good?

One thing I did discover is that if you put about 10% by weight of vinegar with bones (ox or kangaroo tail bones are excellent for both gelatin and collagen) and then keep it at least pasteurization hot for about a week (which under a thick insulating cover uses practically no energy- but it MUST be really well insulated ) the bones themselves become soft enough to cut with a fork.

I think the silliest thing about this 'bacteria are bad' idea is that every time anyone takes a dump, Pboy included, what comes out is almost all bacteria. Inside the colon it's a sceptic tank. Why do people think that's a problem? You would certainly be in deep s*** if it wasn't -my attempt at a sick joke.

Amazoniac · Jul 1, 2015

He doesn't take a dump, ever. I even suspect for some reason that he's infected with H. Pylordy.

A bit off topic but I've seen more and more that poor immunity, especially due to fat-soluble vitamin deficiencies, is closely related with obsessive-compulsive behaviours. It's almost as the person could sense in a way their weakness to the environment and take measures to protect themselves and avoid the unexpected.

EnoreeG · Jul 1, 2015

Stuart said:
narouz said:

EnoreeG said:

Narouz, if you had your appendix out, there is more chance of SIBO, and definite difficulty in getting over it. Did you already know this? I didn't, but I just searched now and found that this is common, as the operation to remove it often causes your ileocecal valve to not be as functional as normal, and you may suffer almost continual leakage up into the small intestine. Read some of the reader comments here:

SIBO—What causes it and why

Click to expand...

Thanks, Enoree!
I'll check that out. :)

Click to expand...

Me too EnoreeG, thanks. I had no idea about the ileocecal valve appendectonomy complication. And mine was whipped our when I was ten (I'm 56 now) It could explain decades of SIBO symptoms, although I was never officially diagnosed. And back in those days , I think it was done pretty roughly. Surgery wasn't nearly as precise as it is now. Still have my tonsils though.
It's a pity you can't do Ileocecal valve muscle exercises in the same way you can strengthen your pelvic floor.
One thing that has kept that appendectonomy hospital stay really vivid for me ever since is that I had a terrifying nightmare that recurs occasionally - whenever I'm really stressed - to this day. I think of it as my pet nightmare.

My oh my! You people do wonders for my education. I've gained tremendous insight into the subjects we discuss just from researching the issues we all bring up here. So now, I'm looking at the gut in more detail than ever before.

So I just took your "pity you can't do Ileocecal valve muscle exercises" as a potential, actual fix, (if it could only be so easy) and searched. For anyone with suspected SIBO, especially if you had your appendix removed, you should do the same (SEARCH). I'm not going to give one or 2 links, because you will be short of the whole story. Just do your own search, first on ileocecal valve massage, then also do ileocecal valve massage SIBO.

This might be a partial answer to some who have SIBO symptoms.

Amazoniac · Jul 1, 2015

The discussion about overgrowth and proper function of the ileocecal valve brings the subject back to metabolism and digestive coordination.
And even though there are pboythesavior many massage techniques, they are not adressing the problem the way it should.

It makes sense that those who had surgery in that area might encounter some problems with its function..

EnoreeG · Jul 1, 2015

Stuart said:
jyb said:

So you got SBO? Eating a pinch of soil is pretty much the ideal recommendation of Art Ayers from Coolinginflammation, although he warns this carries risks as soil carries pathogens too.

Click to expand...

I don't eat any fermented foods. I know Art Ayers (and many others) recommends them. But it isn't for the probiotics. None of the bacteria in fermented foods can populate the colon. Wrong species apparently. They do have other benefits though. And I had dairy goats for thirty years and made yoghurt and kefir every day. I actually think the acidity of fermented foods is really bad for your teeth. YMMV of course.
If you want the bacterial strains that will proliferate in your gut they have to come from soil. Any pinch of soil on planet earth contains billions of bacteria of over 35.000 species. Alarmists do whinge about the dangers of 'spore forming bacteria' in dirt. But kids spend many years playing in and inadvertently consuming small amounts of common full bacterial spectrum random dirt. Before tables, chairs and eating utensils so did adults. Besides, SBO pills (like Prescript Assist and Primal Defense are only a limited number of species. I'm not even sure that we even know yet which ones we should be taking. It probably varies from person to person on any particular day. So I just think dirt is a much better way to get SBO's . Sure I ingest some pathogens too. I think they're part of the big picture of a healthy immune system.
Actually the main reason is that I'm just really tight. SBO pills are SO expensive. I'd rather spend the money on a few Papaya, and take the risk with dirt. So far so good

A recent "find" on line just made me retreat to this part of the thread. I agree with you Stuart that we can't err by putting some more species of germs in our gut, just as we did so freely when we were infants crawling around on the floor, putting interesting objects in our mouths. Dirt is a good thing. Some have mentioned we need to try to steer clear of certain soils, etc. due to possible contaminants such as toxic chemicals. I don't think that's a concern. To add a new species, all you need is a dust particle or a clay particle. It's still going to have maybe a dozen species that you don't currently have inside you. What's the chance it will have a significant amount of mercury, lead or uranium? Nil, I'd say. My main avoidance would be anywhere herbicides/insecticides might lurk.

As you say, for an already healthy gut that doesn't need a big shot of probiotics, just adding variety is great for the immune system. So a little dirt here and there is a good thing. We have so little control on what goes down the pipe as it is, and what happens inside once the new germs get installed. It's better to know we have a good supply of commensals and leave the rest to them.

For instance, we are apparently re-introducing the same germs and spores of germs into our gut, even without an expensive fecal transplant:

What's on the brush

I think this article is hilarious (though so possibly true) in that it tries to get people to "take action". I say why make changes when we're obviously healthy the way we've lived all these years.

So why not bring some new players to the party in very small numbers? We're already eating all the usual suspects.

By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.

Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter

Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...

Rest the rest of this post by clicking here

Why Is There So Much Soluble Fibre In Human Breast Milk?

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads