Such_Saturation
Member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2013
- Messages
- 7,370
What about phytic acid, etc.
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Stuart said:@ EnoreeG
Amazingly detailed comment once again! Thanks.
I actually had no idea how anti bacteria SCD is. The idea that 'overgrowth' of bacteria in the colon is what causes SIBO - rampant bacteria s q u e e z i n g back ( through sheer pressure force of 'overgrowth' ) through the ileocecal valve to cause havoc in the S.I., where they have no business, strikes me as simplistic nonsense. That article by the gastroenterologist I linked to went into some of the complexities of the mechanisms used to control bacterial numbers in the S.I. It seems to be a highly sophisticated toolkit of various measures to make the S.I. inhospitable to bacterial overgrowth (pH, antibacterial chemical measures etc. ) But I did get the impression from your comment that you think it is mostly just forward movement by a high fiber diet through the ileocecal valve that stops the bacteria in the colon 'straying' out of their territory. I do think there's a lot more to it than that. Mainly because they are so close: S.I. small bacterial populations then suddenly, WHAM, the colon - all bacteria.
A healthy gut must be able to make the S.I so inhospitable to bacterial ( and yeasts/ fungii as well of course) overgrowths. And having a dysbiotic gut means those natural control measures don't function properly.
It's so easy to blame the canary in the coal mine - fiber- for the problem rather than just being an impossible to ignore diagnostic tool.
The SCD diet seems to be consigning people to a life of avoiding certain foods without ever, as Amazoniac pointed out, fixing the underlying cause.
I can't help wondering if strict Peating does exactly the same.
The idea that 'overgrowth' of bacteria in the colon is what causes SIBO - rampant bacteria s q u e e z i n g back ( through sheer pressure force of 'overgrowth' ) through the ileocecal valve to cause havoc in the S.I., where they have no business
EnoreeG said:Actually Stuart, I sort of zoomed thru the link you provided to get the gist of it without looking at every point. I agree there is more to the issue of microbial migration. I'll go back and read more there. Yes, I know there is the pH factor in the SI. As you say though, there is more. Did anyone mention yet the fact that if there is no movement downwards, not only does this allow movement upwards of bacteria, but it also (the fecal compaction and immobility in the lower gut) prevents clearing in a timely manner of the SI? This by itself will give sugars, and especially starches, extra time to ferment. If there's no where to go because there's a full house already on the other side of the ileocaecal door, then minimal bacteria or not, you get a growing clan and fermentation where there should be none.
This is probably why, for someone suddenly amping up the fiber, in a body that has a virtually blocked large intestine due to no fiber aiding motility, the latest and newest fiber meal will cause great stress and distress in the SI. Like having already a traffic jam due to rush hour, then a sporting event tries to empty a hot, excited crowd of fans out onto the same boulevard. You get "fermentation" in the stadium parking lot. It's important to build up to this gradually. Get the motility started first, then increase the volume, little by little.
EnoreeG said:I can totally understand all this. At least you got some butter!
Here's the insidiously good thing about fiber, as long as it ISN'T a single-fiber supplement or something else manufactured:
When you eat fiber, you are getting MICRONUTRIENTS from the food containing the fiber.
Because it is a whole food. So you're getting a balance of many, many things! Certain, HIGHLY RESTRICTIVE DIETS are not going to do this. So then you need to supplement. But supplements aren't formulated, either as "multiples" or as "individual items" to actually compliment the foods you eat, and give you balance. The only way to get CLOSE to a healthy balance is to eat a variety of whole foods and see what makes you feel healthy. I have a feeling that people who radiate health do this routinely, but it's just my gut feeling because I do it and a few other healthy people I know do it also. No proof.
Sure, you can do this with a low-fiber diet to start with, if you are sensitive, but still, eat as great a variety as possible and eat whole foods.
So the converse way of looking at it is: If you eat a diet designed to minimize fiber, you TEND to be dieting to reduce micronutrients, or at best, you seriously distort which ones you have in ample amounts, and which you remain short of.
Stuart said:@ EnoreeG
Amazingly detailed comment once again! Thanks.
I actually had no idea how anti bacteria SCD is. The idea that 'overgrowth' of bacteria in the colon is what causes SIBO - rampant bacteria s q u e e z i n g back ( through sheer pressure force of 'overgrowth' ) through the ileocecal valve to cause havoc in the S.I., where they have no business, strikes me as simplistic nonsense. That article by the gastroenterologist I linked to went into some of the complexities of the mechanisms used to control bacterial numbers in the S.I. It seems to be a highly sophisticated toolkit of various measures to make the S.I. inhospitable to bacterial overgrowth (pH, antibacterial chemical measures etc. ) But I did get the impression from your comment that you think it is mostly just forward movement by a high fiber diet through the ileocecal valve that stops the bacteria in the colon 'straying' out of their territory. I do think there's a lot more to it than that. Mainly because they are so close: S.I. small bacterial populations then suddenly, WHAM, the colon - all bacteria.
A healthy gut must be able to make the S.I so inhospitable to bacterial ( and yeasts/ fungii as well of course) overgrowths. And having a dysbiotic gut means those natural control measures don't function properly.
It's so easy to blame the canary in the coal mine - fiber- for the problem rather than just being an impossible to ignore diagnostic tool.
The SCD diet seems to be consigning people to a life of avoiding certain foods without ever, as Amazoniac pointed out, fixing the underlying cause.
I can't help wondering if strict Peating does exactly the same.
Of course, many people still posess the character to be followers, but increasingly many are waking up and an increasingly free-thinking majority will use this information to think for themselves. This is for you.
Peata said:EnoreeG said:I can totally understand all this. At least you got some butter!
Here's the insidiously good thing about fiber, as long as it ISN'T a single-fiber supplement or something else manufactured:
When you eat fiber, you are getting MICRONUTRIENTS from the food containing the fiber.
Because it is a whole food. So you're getting a balance of many, many things! Certain, HIGHLY RESTRICTIVE DIETS are not going to do this. So then you need to supplement. But supplements aren't formulated, either as "multiples" or as "individual items" to actually compliment the foods you eat, and give you balance. The only way to get CLOSE to a healthy balance is to eat a variety of whole foods and see what makes you feel healthy. I have a feeling that people who radiate health do this routinely, but it's just my gut feeling because I do it and a few other healthy people I know do it also. No proof.
Sure, you can do this with a low-fiber diet to start with, if you are sensitive, but still, eat as great a variety as possible and eat whole foods.
So the converse way of looking at it is: If you eat a diet designed to minimize fiber, you TEND to be dieting to reduce micronutrients, or at best, you seriously distort which ones you have in ample amounts, and which you remain short of.
I'm not sure a low fiber diet means you won't get adequate nutrition... because you won't have the intestinal irritation that can come from certain types of fiber that promotes increased cortisol, serotonin and endotoxin. Plus toxins such as phytic acid and lectin to name a couple. So I guess you have to decide if the nutrition value of say, beans, is worth the effort of the body to break it down to get past these toxins and stress chemicals that eating the beans cause. When there are foods easier on digestion that supply good nutrition out there.
I'm not saying that I personaly do or do not eat fiber of various amounts and kinds, I'm just throwing that out there because I'm not sure a low fiber diet has to mean reduced micronutrients.
If you want to know about results of antibiotic treatment for GI infections you need to make it clear in that thread.Amazoniac said:I created a poll because I'm genuinely curious to know if someone already had success with an antibiotic treatment for GI infections..
narouz said:HDD said:http://memoriediangelina.com/2010/03/21/carciofi-alla-romana/#.VbQy69m9Kc1
Roman style artichoke (in English)
Wow.
And that's exactly how Such described it. :)
Giraffe said:If you want to know about results of antibiotic treatment for GI infections you need to make it clear in that thread.Amazoniac said:I created a poll because I'm genuinely curious to know if someone already had success with an antibiotic treatment for GI infections..
Amazoniac said:It's much harder to figure how to deal with issues and bring back health than it's to determine what's healthy or not.
I'm questioning that endotoxins are a real concern for those with GI problems.
I created a poll because I'm genuinely curious to know if someone already had success with an antibiotic treatment for GI infections..
tara said:If you are wanting to feed your gas-producing bacteria, I've not struck anything more effective than soup made from jerusalem (f)artichokes. :)
Just curious whether the gas you experienced was from your colon (easy to pass - probably inconvenient - but not bloating type gas in your S.I.) ?tara said:If you are wanting to feed your gas-producing bacteria, I've not struck anything more effective than soup made from jerusalem (f)artichokes. :)
Although I agree with his views about prebiotics, I think it isn't helpful to cast aspertions on contrary views as being a 'follower' mindset. It isn't conducive to constructive discussion. It's a bit like Such_ saying that I ' ... always see things in black and white'. I felt like replying that it actually depends if they're in colour, but thought better of buying into even mild ad hominem.Duncan Crow said:Of course, many people still posess the character to be followers, but increasingly many are waking up and an increasingly free-thinking majority will use this information to think for themselves. This is for you.