The Ocean’s Mysterious Thiamine Deficiency

[cjm]

We found the thiaminase I enzyme from Clostridium botulinum efficiently degrades thiamine in the presence of pyridoxine (vitamin B6) as a co-substrate but has relatively limited activity in the presence of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3).

"Pyridoxine yielded 60.6% degradation, nicotinic acid yielded 42.5% degradation, and folic acid yielded 16.9% under the same conditions. A small amount of degradation of thiamine was observed in the presence of L-methionine (8.0%) and L-histidine (10.1%). None of the other L-amino acids or vitamins yielded significant degradation of thiamine in the presence of thiaminase, suggesting the presence of dietary pyridoxine or nicotinic acid was required for thiaminase activity."

These co-substrate limitations and the common presence of inhibitory dietary factors complement recent studies reporting that the intended function of thiaminase enzymes is to recycle thiamine breakdown products for thiamine synthesis, not thiamine degradation.

It's not us (humans), it's them (the bacteria):

"some microorganisms preferentially use precursors for thiamine synthesis, and are incapable of uptake of exogenous intact thiamine²³,⁸⁷"
"may favor certain bacteria... an inhibitory compound to competitors... some degradation products of thiamine are toxic analogues that inhibit enzymatic reactions for which thiamine is a required cofactor⁷⁸,⁷⁹,⁸⁰,⁸¹,⁸²,"

Nice share. This study was recent, too -- April 2023.

 

[cjm]

Cu2+ potently and irreversibly inhibited thiamine degradation

This is a neat observation. I've been taking 8 mg of copper roughly every day for the past two months.

many people also note extreme sensitivity to strenuous activity, losing motivation and drive, and pulled into a sedentary life, especially with mostly milk and oranges based diet conducted long time. I can describe the feeling as a burnt out feeling of muscle fibers, certain dryness, muscle and thinking fibers being somewhat incapable of complete movement having both concentric and eccentric parts. Only startings occur, but focus, robustness, closure is lost. The feeling is at its peak if only pure sugar or honey is used, or excessive aspirin, t3 or metabolic substances is used without cooked food or soups, or without shellfish.

I now see that the condition immediately changes and revert back its powerful original version, if one changes oranges with pomegranates, or pineapples, or if one eats a squid meal, but not red meat, nor liver. Experientially, I have come into conclusion that, the feeling must coincide with copper among the traces.

a classical Peating diet as very high carb with fructose, calcium, metabolic enhancers, and less serotonin-estrogen in general, necessitate much more higher mineral base than traditional eating since traditional dieting includes lots of metabolic halting. Such need may necessitate ridiculous amount of copper, and corresponding other traces.

Why Ray switched into high vegetable, or copper as hidden variable

High copper and high mineral bases are specifically harvested taste-wise and feeling-wise in traditional eating, coupled with high carb. On the other hand, a classical Peating diet as very high carb with fructose, calcium, metabolic enhancers, and less serotonin-estrogen in general, necessitate...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Mathgirl]

"Pyridoxine yielded 60.6% degradation, nicotinic acid yielded 42.5% degradation, and folic acid yielded 16.9% under the same conditions. A small amount of degradation of thiamine was observed in the presence of L-methionine (8.0%) and L-histidine (10.1%). None of the other L-amino acids or vitamins yielded significant degradation of thiamine in the presence of thiaminase, suggesting the presence of dietary pyridoxine or nicotinic acid was required for thiaminase activity."



It's not us (humans), it's them (the bacteria):

"some microorganisms preferentially use precursors for thiamine synthesis, and are incapable of uptake of exogenous intact thiamine²³,⁸⁷"
"may favor certain bacteria... an inhibitory compound to competitors... some degradation products of thiamine are toxic analogues that inhibit enzymatic reactions for which thiamine is a required cofactor⁷⁸,⁷⁹,⁸⁰,⁸¹,⁸²,"

Nice share. This study was recent, too -- April 2023.

Can you explain this like Im 5? We don't want thiaminase activity right? So now taking other b vitamins is bad? I'm lost

 

[cjm]

Can you explain this like Im 5? We don't want thiaminase activity right? So now taking other b vitamins is bad? I'm lost

This is only getting more complex and I was pulling on a string to begin with, haha. However, I don't think humans have anything to worry about thiaminase per se. The fishies' ecosystem went through a major change* with the introduction of the thiaminease-containing alewife. We aren't facing anything like that, like for wild instance if we all were agreeable one day to only eat horsetail going forward. Also, it's not necessarily a bad action for B6 and B3 and others to degrade thiamine if the bacteria are using the pieces to actually re-build it. My first question of a million: if copper with its thiamine degradation inhibition was tested with B6 and B3, would the effect on thiamine levels be net positive? Or does copper by the same virtue interfere with some bacteria's ability, let's call this bacteria beneficial to humans for the sake of argument, to pick up the thiaminease-derived scraps to synthesize its own thiamine? It's mind-boggling how complex this situation could be. Don't change anything you're doing based on this study :)

*Edit: EMF pollution qualifies as a major environmental change for all life over the past 130 years with the introduction of electrified everything. The most recent and current threat in this regard is 5G (more local harm to organisms) and satellite internet service (unknown effects of directly irradiating the magnetosphere of the earth).

Radiation from various modulations of frequencies is more fundamentally harmful than a simple increase of thiaminease because it interferes with the movement of oxygen in the cell, hence creates hypoxia, or an oxygen deficiency even in the presence of thiamine adequacy.

 

[cjm]

Radiation creates hypoxia, or an oxygen deficiency

"Contraction is essentially anaerobic process. Lactic acid production, the fundamental chemical reaction producing energy for muscle contraction, does not require oxygen. Such energy-yielding reactions of partial decomposition, not requiring oxygen, are called fermentations. Muscle then, obtains energy incidentally of its immediate oxygen supply by the rapid fermentation of glycogen to lactic acid, in the same way a brewer’s yeast derives one energy by the fermentation of sugars to alcohol. This anaerobic explosion of energy is akin to jet propulsion, and similarly, its potential is limited. Ultimately, muscle requires oxygen for the maintenance of normal irritability, for oxidative energy production, and for the restoration of its anaerobic energy-yielding system." RESPONSE OF PERIPHERAL AND CENTRAL NERVE PATHOLOGY TO MEGA-DOSES OF THE VITAMIN B-COMPLEX AND OTHER METABOLITES