Low Toxin Studies Zinc & Selenium Supplementation Significantly Raises Metabolic Rate

[InChristAlone]

Well I did low Vitamin A diet for a year and a half without any Vitamin A and when I took the zinc back in that period it worked way worse metabolism wise than it does now. Also, as I've told you many times already, the parapack I take now is completely different to taking a single Vitamin A supplement on its own... I don't know how many times I need to explain this to you. And guess what when I take the parapack it actually makes the zinc work much better than if I take the zinc on its own, why is that? Because zinc is needed to make Vitamin A work properly. And the parapack is raising the oxidation rate and turning on correct metabolism so minerals are used up correctly.

Yes of course zinc is needed to eliminate vitamin A! A zinc deficiency causes an apparent need for vitamin A. I showed that in the literature.

 

[Hidden49]

Yes of course zinc is needed to eliminate vitamin A! A zinc deficiency causes an apparent need for vitamin A. I showed that in the literature.

Well that doesn't make sense regarding my case as I said I felt better with the zinc and parapack compared to the zinc on it's own. Sorry that you view things in such a one dimensional way only based around Grants/Garrets work and how it relates to your own experience unfortunately it's not as simple as that.

 

[InChristAlone]

Well that doesn't make sense regarding my case as I said I felt better with the zinc and parapack compared to the zinc on it's own. Sorry that you view things in such a one dimensional way only based around Grants/Garrets work and how it relates to your own experience unfortunately it's not as simple as that.

Feeling better is subjective, chocolate makes me feel amazing in the moment, but is detrimental long term. Did you get any blood labs done during your low vit A experiment? Hair tests only tell part of the story. I'd like to see a CBC and lipid panel. And no I am not in one dimensional thinking. I just know vit A has a duration paradox, people feel great for a while, including those on carnivore doing liver and 6 eggs a day. If you'd like to argue for how vit A in the parapack supplement increases oxidation this might not be the place to do it! Charlie has updated the terms:

This is the official stance of "vitamin A" on the forum. This will not be argued out, there will be no change of course, so please do not waste yours nor my time trying to make it another way.

We will not allow any "Pro vitamin A" studies/research to be posted. If you want to discuss pro "vitamin A" studies there are other forums where you can go do this.

It is the forums official position that if "vitamin A" is indeed essential for the body, the amount needed is so small, even with avoiding high "vitamin A" foods and also the "vitamin A" stores contained within the liver, a person will still have plenty of "vitamin A" available to them for essential processes.

If you do not agree with this, so be it. But we will not allow disruption of the forum for you to air your grievances. Do it somewhere else.

Sincerely,

 

[charlie]

Feeling better is subjective, chocolate makes me feel amazing in the moment,

Exactly, chocolate made me feel good and it also helped my digestion immensely. That is the reason I was eating it, it would keep my digestion moving along nicely. Little did I know at the time, the copper was piling up waiting to unleash hell on me all the while helping me to feel better.

 

[Hidden49]

Feeling better is subjective, chocolate makes me feel amazing in the moment, but is detrimental long term. Did you get any blood labs done during your low vit A experiment? Hair tests only tell part of the story. I'd like to see a CBC and lipid panel. And no I am not in one dimensional thinking. I just know vit A has a duration paradox, people feel great for a while, including those on carnivore doing liver and 6 eggs a day. If you'd like to argue for how vit A in the parapack supplement increases oxidation this might not be the place to do it! Charlie has updated the terms:

Well aren't you a bundle of fun why are you acting like this is the RCP... You have an issue with what I say because it challenges your current beliefs and results with your Low Vit A experience. No the parapack is not like having chocolate or ice cream, I don't get the high and crash from it like I do with the junk food, it doesn't shut down my bile either. The parapack actually detoxes me but I see long term improvements after taking it as it helps my body. There's really no point in debating you as Garret and Grant's ideas are so engrained into your head, that it's now the only way you are able to view things and I actually did use to be similar to that when I first started low Vit A.

 

[mosaic01]

Exactly, chocolate made me feel good and it also helped my digestion immensely. That is the reason I was eating it, it would keep my digestion moving along nicely. Little did I know at the time, the copper was piling up waiting to unleash hell on me all the while helping me to feel better.

I was also a chocolate addict. I ate 1-2 bars every day for years. I thought I was being smart and told people it's good for me. I took 1 or 2 bottles of copper supplements on top of that, over the course of 1-2 years.

My hair copper went sky high beyond the reference range. Half a year of chocolate avoidance and it was down to the high end of normal.

My digestion only stopped working once I stopped chocolate, coffee, spices, dairy, etc.

Within a couple weeks, everything was turned upside down as I realized what I had been doing to my body, seeing the true state of my liver and digestion.

 

[charlie]

Within a couple weeks, everything was turned upside down as I realized what I had been doing to my body, seeing the true state of my liver and digestion.

No worries brother, it will get better. When I realized that chocolate was destroying me, I had to make the decision to quit. And upon making the decision, I knew my digestion was going to hit the gutter. And it did. My poo literally turned pale, no brown at all. The only tool I had at the time to keep my digestion going was chocolate. I did not have anything else left in my toolbox, it was a scary moment. But I stepped out in faith, and went all in the low toxin lifestyle and slowly but surely my digestion turned around and keeps getting better and better.

 

[Hidden49]

No worries brother, it will get better. When I realized that chocolate was destroying me, I had to make the decision to quit. And upon making the decision, I knew my digestion was going to hit the gutter. And it did. My poo literally turned pale, no brown at all. The only tool I had at the time to keep my digestion going was chocolate. I did not have anything else left in my toolbox, it was a scary moment. But I stepped out in faith, and went all in the low toxin lifestyle and slowly but surely my digestion turned around and keeps getting better and better.

Chocolate is toxic I'm in full agreement with that.

 

[charlie]

Chocolate is toxic I'm in full agreement with that.

It is just awful stuff.

 

[InChristAlone]

Well aren't you a bundle of fun why are you acting like this is the RCP... You have an issue with what I say because it challenges your current beliefs and results with your Low Vit A experience. No the parapack is not like having chocolate or ice cream, I don't get the high and crash from it like I do with the junk food, it doesn't shut down my bile either. The parapack actually detoxes me but I see long term improvements after taking it as it helps my body. There's really no point in debating you as Garret and Grant's ideas are so engrained into your head, that it's now the only way you are able to view things and I actually did use to be similar to that when I first started low Vit A.

I'm not here to have fun. And no the vitamin A detox diet isn't fun. See my log for more info about that. If I wanted to have fun I'd still be on instagram posting selfies like a dopamine addict.

I can see that the other things in the supplement can help facilitate vitamin A metabolism, but why do you need more is the question? Again I ask YOU to question your belief in it and see if the same ratios of minerals and vitamins would work the same without the retinol or beta carotene. But this still doesn't rule out that vitamin A detox isn't fun for the first yr or two, Grant is a huge case study on that one. His health only got better and better after that. He tracked that very well. If it were necessary for metabolism he'd be hypothyroid, and that would be plain to see. We all know the side effects of hypothyroidism. His hair would be ragged, he'd be gaining weight and swelling up and not have any energy. He's the opposite of that. So I haven't heard anything from you regarding this. I'm not like a robot just repeating what he said. I can understand science, he is doing his own science experiment and it's clear vitamin A isn't necessary to run the body.

 

[Deadpool]

I was also a chocolate addict. I ate 1-2 bars every day for years. I thought I was being smart and told people it's good for me. I took 1 or 2 bottles of copper supplements on top of that, over the course of 1-2 years.

My hair copper went sky high beyond the reference range. Half a year of chocolate avoidance and it was down to the high end of normal.

View attachment 61616

My digestion only stopped working once I stopped chocolate, coffee, spices, dairy, etc.

Within a couple weeks, everything was turned upside down as I realized what I had been doing to my body, seeing the true state of my liver and digestion.

How did you get your digestion moving again once you stopped those things?

For me it's the exact same thing. I feel like I used those things like coffee (especially coffee), dairy, spices, chocolate, junk food as self medication to keep my digestion moving but its detrimental in the long run.

However when I stop that my digestion comes to an excrutiating halt and nothing works anymore. I feel terrible and bile isnt moving at all. Yesterday I tried very lean organic ground beef, with rice and black beans. I never eat beans and I have subconciously avoided them my whole life because as I know now, it completely stops bile flow for me. It was such a terrible experience. It might be that my bile ducts are so gunked up, that the increased bile production from beans doesnt come through. But for me it just feels like nothing is moving. Also, I was at the doctor last week after an episode and she did a complete ultrasound of all my organs and said my gallbladder, liver and bile ducts seem perfectly clean.

That also kinda makes me question the low A paradigm because my bile completely stops moving when it seems fine when I eat it actually. I do recognize tho that it can be duration paradox and the state of my liver must be in a very very bad state because I also have incredibely low cholesterol so I assume my bile just isnt moving at all or I just dont produce bile maybe?

Yeah exactly, zinc slows my metabolism down, it doesn't speed it up... And it's not because its copper dumping I got over copper toxicity along time ago. Also zinc is making me hypothyroid as in I feel colder outside and slower

This is my experience as well. It might be the picolinate like TheSir says but IDK. I also read your other replies and your experience mirrors mine. When I try to eat super low A and add the zinc on top, I start feeling colder and colder, and lower dopamine, very agitated, can't sleep. When I add more higher fat, vitamin A foods the zinc starts working better. It also reminds me of my experience of ox bile, where it actually seemed like all the stored copper in my liver was coming out, fat digestion was finally working and zinc felt way better too, not completely castrating all my hormones.

My copper and ceruloplasmin in blood are also both deficient. I tried going down the route of paradoxical copper toxicity and just going with zinc and all the other minerals like Garrett Smith and my Mineral Balancing Pracititioner recommends. I was also diagnosed with pyroluria which supposedly requires massive doses of zinc and b6. However, they just make me feel colder and colder and worse and worse.

I do think that I am copper toxic and it is all stored in liver and organs. However just increasing zinc doesnt seem work for me. I actually need to get my gunked up liver working but so far nothing has worked. I just remembered ox bile and how it actually felt like I had bile for the first time (this was over 2 years ago) after my horrible experience with beans and beef yesterday.

I am not trying to discredit the low A group, I am genuinely open to any approach and I can see how it can be the root cause of my problem.

 

[InChristAlone]

I was also a chocolate addict. I ate 1-2 bars every day for years. I thought I was being smart and told people it's good for me. I took 1 or 2 bottles of copper supplements on top of that, over the course of 1-2 years.

My hair copper went sky high beyond the reference range. Half a year of chocolate avoidance and it was down to the high end of normal.

View attachment 61616

My digestion only stopped working once I stopped chocolate, coffee, spices, dairy, etc.

Within a couple weeks, everything was turned upside down as I realized what I had been doing to my body, seeing the true state of my liver and digestion.

Wow that's a lot of copper!! I'm impressed by your calcium and mag though. Were you doing less dairy at that point?

 

[mosaic01]

Were you doing less dairy at that point?

Is that a good ratio? No, that was before changing anything. Usually 1 liter of milk every day, plus maybe 50g cheese.

But I had been doing magnesium chloride spray, magnesium sulfate baths here and there.

 

[InChristAlone]

How did you get your digestion moving again once you stopped those things?

For me it's the exact same thing. I feel like I used those things like coffee (especially coffee), dairy, spices, chocolate, junk food as self medication to keep my digestion moving but its detrimental in the long run.

However when I stop that my digestion comes to an excrutiating halt and nothing works anymore. I feel terrible and bile isnt moving at all. Yesterday I tried very lean organic ground beef, with rice and black beans. I never eat beans and I have subconciously avoided them my whole life because as I know now, it completely stops bile flow for me. It was such a terrible experience. It might be that my bile ducts are so gunked up, that the increased bile production from beans doesnt come through. But for me it just feels like nothing is moving. Also, I was at the doctor last week after an episode and she did a complete ultrasound of all my organs and said my gallbladder, liver and bile ducts seem perfectly clean.

That also kinda makes me question the low A paradigm because my bile completely stops moving when it seems fine when I eat it actually. I do recognize tho that it can be duration paradox and the state of my liver must be in a very very bad state because I also have incredibely low cholesterol so I assume my bile just isnt moving at all or I just dont produce bile maybe?



This is my experience as well. It might be the picolinate like TheSir says but IDK. I also read your other replies and your experience mirrors mine. When I try to eat super low A and add the zinc on top, I start feeling colder and colder, and lower dopamine, very agitated, can't sleep. When I add more higher fat, vitamin A foods the zinc starts working better. It also reminds me of my experience of ox bile, where it actually seemed like all the stored copper in my liver was coming out, fat digestion was finally working and zinc felt way better too, not completely castrating all my hormones.

My copper and ceruloplasmin in blood are also both deficient. I tried going down the route of paradoxical copper toxicity and just going with zinc and all the other minerals like Garrett Smith and my Mineral Balancing Pracititioner recommends. I was also diagnosed with pyroluria which supposedly requires massive doses of zinc and b6. However, they just make me feel colder and colder and worse and worse.

I do think that I am copper toxic and it is all stored in liver and organs. However just increasing zinc doesnt seem work for me. I actually need to get my gunked up liver working but so far nothing has worked. I just remembered ox bile and how it actually felt like I had bile for the first time (this was over 2 years ago) after my horrible experience with beans and beef yesterday.

I am not trying to discredit the low A group, I am genuinely open to any approach and I can see how it can be the root cause of my problem.

Low cholesterol can signify you aren't producing much bile. I wrote that down a long time ago from a metabolic typing practitioner. If you want to take Ray Peat's advice sugar increases cholesterol, that was the case for me. I am dealing with excessive tissue cholesterol (not total, that's normal). Using ox bile until you feel like you are producing enough might be a good strategy.

 

[InChristAlone]

Is that a good ratio? No, that was before changing anything. Usually 1 liter of milk every day, plus maybe 50g cheese.

But I had been doing magnesium chloride spray, magnesium sulfate baths here and there.

I'm no expert in the ratios, what did the test say about the ratio? But at least it's not sky high like my calcium was!

 

[mosaic01]

But at least it's not sky high like my calcium was!

Ah yeah, the calcium is not bad considering I was on lots of dairy and taking vitamin D.

So the test says calcium needs to be lower compared to my magnesium level.

 

[Deadpool]

Low cholesterol can signify you aren't producing much bile. I wrote that down a long time ago from a metabolic practitioner. If you want to take Ray Peat's advice sugar greatly increases cholesterol, that was the case for me. I am dealing with excessive tissue cholesterol (not total, that's normal). Using ox bile until you feel like you are producing enough might be a good strategy.

I have been trying the Ray Peat way for 7 or 8 years already. Started when I was 18. Thats how I found that out in the first place. I just came from a period of paleo eating with lots and lots of eggs, milk, beef, salmon. Then 1 year of peating with insane amounts of sugar. I was still super duper skinny. I had insane hormonal and sexual problems tho so I went to an endo and found out my total cholesterol was 80. It has been like that ever since, every time I test. The endo didnt even say anything also he was supposed to be "best in the country". Only reason I found out that this was a bad number was because of a consult with Danny Roddy where he asked me to double take because he never saw that low cholesterol.

Another thing that came back then was super high prolactin but I think that was due to the insane amounts of milk and liquids when I was trying "peating" in the very early days. But I got that under control naturally a long time ago. Only thing that is still messed up is the low low low cholesterol and my copper and ceruloplasmin. Funnily enough, no doctor takes the low cholesterol seriously. My GP literally told me, "that's perfect, most professionals would say this is the optimal value." Meanwhile I am think just look at hypocholesterima and how the nr 1 side effect is suicide due to intense depression.

According to Garrett Smith I would be an undertype. So I need more fat and everything, but so far, nothing has worked for me to actually stimulate bile production and keep it moving.

 

[Deadpool]

So yeah, all I am trying to say I guess is that the Ray Peat theory of eating sugar increases cholesterol never ever worked for me. In fact, nothing ever worked for me. That either means my liver is seriously messed up or there is another factor that I couldnt pinpoint yet. Some genetic defect, extreme nutrient deficiency ( I recently tried b5 which supposedly helps bile production and cholesterol synthesis, it seemed to help but my insane insomnia which is already inhumane got even worse.)

 

[InChristAlone]

So yeah, all I am trying to say I guess is that the Ray Peat theory of eating sugar increases cholesterol never ever worked for me. In fact, nothing ever worked for me. That either means my liver is seriously messed up or there is another factor that I couldnt pinpoint yet. Some genetic defect, extreme nutrient deficiency ( I recently tried b5 which supposedly helps bile production and cholesterol synthesis, it seemed to help but my insane insomnia which is already inhumane got even worse.)

Yeah that is crazy low!!!! Wow, do you have your labs handy? what was HDL LDL and triglycerides? Wow actually my cholesterol was much lower on a high fat diet with lower sugars. Insanely high tissue cholesterol on a high carb and high fat diet. (35% fat 55% carb). Have you tried ice cream? haha!! Are you still really skinny? I was super skinny and ice cream turned my life around. I told everyone about that I think lol. It's also helped @Jennifer heal from fruitarianism. My problem became I couldn't get off the ice cream and fats once I was at a good weight and health. I'm finally seeing results doing the opposite. High starch, lower fat higher protein.

 

[mosaic01]

So yeah, all I am trying to say I guess is that the Ray Peat theory of eating sugar increases cholesterol never ever worked for me. In fact, nothing ever worked for me. That either means my liver is seriously messed up or there is another factor that I couldnt pinpoint yet. Some genetic defect, extreme nutrient deficiency ( I recently tried b5 which supposedly helps bile production and cholesterol synthesis, it seemed to help but my insane insomnia which is already inhumane got even worse.)

TMG is known to boost cholesterol production in doses exceeding 4-5g per day. Not sure whether that's good, but maybe it could help.