Low Toxin Studies Zinc & Selenium Supplementation Significantly Raises Metabolic Rate

[AinmAnseo]

I read that too much selenium could affect thyroid function.

This study talks about that:
Selenium Supplementation Suppresses Serum T3 Levels In Man

Also, a comment from haidut about a comment from Peat:
Endotoxin And Fat Consumption

And I see this passing comment here:

Blocking The Negative Effects Of Electromagnetic Radiation

There was a discussion on the forum back in September: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1522&p=28370&hilit=magnetic#p28370 It seems that the last post in the thread talks about how electromagnetic radiation mediates its effects - through calcium "channels" in the cells. Here is perhaps the most...

raypeatforum.com

I get 100 mcg from my diet, so I was wondering about whether to supplement, or not.
It is confusing.

Thoughts?

 

[Deadpool]

Yeah that is crazy low!!!! Wow, do you have your labs handy? what was HDL LDL and triglycerides? Wow actually my cholesterol was much lower on a high fat diet with lower sugars. Insanely high tissue cholesterol on a high carb and high fat diet. (35% fat 55% carb). Have you tried ice cream? haha!! Are you still really skinny? I was super skinny and ice cream turned my life around. I told everyone about that I think lol. It's also helped @Jennifer heal from fruitarianism. My problem became I couldn't get off the ice cream and fats once I was at a good weight and health. I'm finally seeing results doing the opposite. High starch, lower fat higher protein.

I mean I wouldnt say skinny as in super skinny underfed. I am actually normal weight, pretty fit. I don't really gain too much fat ever. I am 6'1 at 165 pounds, when I was able to lift weight, I was at 180. So I'd say pretty normal weight. When I was a kid though, I was always really skinny, highly adrenalized. To this day, I think a lot of the fact why I don't gain weight is because I am always highly adrenalized, not because of good metabolism necessarily. Tho for the past 2 years, running off adrenaline for most of my life really has burnt me out and now I am suffering from this weird adrenal fatigue, where I dont have energy for anything, yet I cant sleep lying in bed wired but tired. Really, really bad state I am in right now. 25 y/o and can't work or do anything anymore really. And yes of course I've tried ice cream. During the hay day of peat eating I would down so much ice cream, sugar, sweets and junk food. No budge. During that time I actually just started looking more and more estrogenic and my prolactin raised, so it wasnt good. I look much better now but I feel way way worse.

Here are my most recent comprehensive labs. I don't think anything changed since then. I hope you can understand everything since its in german. Kupfer = copper. Eisen = iron. I will probably start my own thread finally soon and I hope all you guys can chime in because I am in a really really bad spot right now.

 

[mosaic01]

Thoughts?

My personal thought is that one should not take more than 50mcg per day in addition to what's in the diet. That amount already saturates the selenoproteins. 100mcg once or twice a week seems reasonable to me.

High doses can quickly become toxic.

Also some say selenomethionine is better than sodium selenite because sodium selenite has to be activated.

 

[freyasam]

I read that too much selenium could affect thyroid function.

This study talks about that:
Selenium Supplementation Suppresses Serum T3 Levels In Man

Also, a comment from haidut about a comment from Peat:
Endotoxin And Fat Consumption

And I see this passing comment here:

Blocking The Negative Effects Of Electromagnetic Radiation

There was a discussion on the forum back in September: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1522&p=28370&hilit=magnetic#p28370 It seems that the last post in the thread talks about how electromagnetic radiation mediates its effects - through calcium "channels" in the cells. Here is perhaps the most...

raypeatforum.com

I get 100 mcg from my diet, so I was wondering about whether to supplement, or not.
It is confusing.

Thoughts?

Proceed with caution. I've been taking sodium selenite topical oil and became more hypo soon after starting.

 

[InChristAlone]

I mean I wouldnt say skinny as in super skinny underfed. I am actually normal weight, pretty fit. I don't really gain too much fat ever. I am 6'1 at 165 pounds, when I was able to lift weight, I was at 180. So I'd say pretty normal weight. When I was a kid though, I was always really skinny, highly adrenalized. To this day, I think a lot of the fact why I don't gain weight is because I am always highly adrenalized, not because of good metabolism necessarily. Tho for the past 2 years, running off adrenaline for most of my life really has burnt me out and now I am suffering from this weird adrenal fatigue, where I dont have energy for anything, yet I cant sleep lying in bed wired but tired. Really, really bad state I am in right now. 25 y/o and can't work or do anything anymore really. And yes of course I've tried ice cream. During the hay day of peat eating I would down so much ice cream, sugar, sweets and junk food. No budge. During that time I actually just started looking more and more estrogenic and my prolactin raised, so it wasnt good. I look much better now but I feel way way worse.

Here are my most recent comprehensive labs. I don't think anything changed since then. I hope you can understand everything since its in german. Kupfer = copper. Eisen = iron. I will probably start my own thread finally soon and I hope all you guys can chime in because I am in a really really bad spot right now.

View attachment 61622

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Wow that is very low cholesterol and tissue cholesterol, low 100 when it should be 300-500, so even if you wanted to take thyroid I wonder if you could without enough cholesterol? Your TSH is honestly not that bad, but adrenaline can keep it lower. All I know is that you are in need of bile salts badly!! Definitely start your own log, I hope you can get the help you need. I'd be curious to see your hair mineral analysis too. Yeah don't do the ice cream and sweets then if it wasn't helping.

 

[Don]

I have been trying the Ray Peat way for 7 or 8 years already. Started when I was 18. Thats how I found that out in the first place. I just came from a period of paleo eating with lots and lots of eggs, milk, beef, salmon. Then 1 year of peating with insane amounts of sugar. I was still super duper skinny. I had insane hormonal and sexual problems tho so I went to an endo and found out my total cholesterol was 80. It has been like that ever since, every time I test. The endo didnt even say anything also he was supposed to be "best in the country". Only reason I found out that this was a bad number was because of a consult with Danny Roddy where hender asked me to double take because he never saw that low cholesterol.

Another thing that came back then was super high prolactin but I think that was due to the insane amounts of milk and liquids when I was trying "peating" in the very early days. But I got that under control naturally a long time ago. Only thing that is still messed up is the low low low cholesterol and my copper and ceruloplasmin. Funnily enough, no doctor takes the low cholesterol seriously. My GP literally told me, "that's perfect, most professionals would say this is the optimal value." Meanwhile I am think just look at hypocholesterima and how the nr 1 side effect is suicide due to intense depression.

According to Garrett Smith I would be an undertype. So I need more fat and everything, but so far, nothing has worked for me to actually stimulate bile production and keep it moving.

Would be so kind to elaborate on over/under type ?
Thanks

 

[DKBS]

Where dos CoQ10 fall here? It is classified as a Carotenoid which can be converted into Vit A in body?

 

[Deadpool]

Where dos CoQ10 fall here? It is classified as a Carotenoid which can be converted into Vit A in body?

Interesting. I just found Shawn Bean on facebook and he talks a lot about copper and these same things and he is the only guy I found who talks about low cholesterol as well and he recommends coq10. I havent tried it yet but I was about to.

Would be so kind to elaborate on over/under type ?
Thanks

To simplify, over types need less fat, store body fat easier. Undertypes barely gain weight, need more fat with meals to support bile.

Wow that is very low cholesterol and tissue cholesterol, low 100 when it should be 300-500, so even if you wanted to take thyroid I wonder if you could without enough cholesterol? Your TSH is honestly not that bad, but adrenaline can keep it lower. All I know is that you are in need of bile salts badly!! Definitely start your own log, I hope you can get the help you need. I'd be curious to see your hair mineral analysis too. Yeah don't do the ice cream and sweets then if it wasn't helping.

Yeah I am still in shock how no doctor till this day beats an eye. I mention it every time and I have been to tons of doctors. No one thinks anything about it. They are incompetent.

Yes, I always thought I was leaning more towards "hyperthyroidism" in numbers. That's why I was cautious to try thyroid. I tried NDT once, just a tiny little bit and got a panic attack. That's why I am so sensitive to thyroid boosting substances as well as coffee. Because of the tiny cholesterol. My only thought today was after I tried the beans and it completely shut off bile production that thyroid might fix that, and by fixing bile production it might eventually lead to higher cholesterol levels again when whatever is gunking up my liver is loosened. But thats just my head canon. Every study shows that thyroid tremendously lowers cholesterol.

When you say I need bile acids. Do you mean supplemental bile acids like ox bile?

 

[charlie]

According to Garrett Smith I would be an undertype. So I need more fat and everything, but so far, nothing has worked for me to actually stimulate bile production and keep it moving.

It took Hope who is in the love your liver group three years to unlock her liver and then she started dumping iron and copper like crazy. You just have to keep chipping away at it until the Alchemy of the body changes to where the toxins literally cannot hold on anymore and get purged.

And I am sure you know about under types? Basically those who cannot put on fat their liver is in the worst shape because they have lost that protection mechanism of putting toxins into fat. So basically the toxins run rough shod over the organs and glands. Dr. Garrett Smith basically figured out the obesity paradox, this is why people who can put on fat are generally more healthy then people who stay skinny and cannot put on fat.

@Don

 

[Hidden49]

I'm not here to have fun. And no the vitamin A detox diet isn't fun. See my log for more info about that. If I wanted to have fun I'd still be on instagram posting selfies like a dopamine addict.

I can see that the other things in the supplement can help facilitate vitamin A metabolism, but why do you need more is the question? Again I ask YOU to question your belief in it and see if the same ratios of minerals and vitamins would work the same without the retinol or beta carotene. But this still doesn't rule out that vitamin A detox isn't fun for the first yr or two, Grant is a huge case study on that one. His health only got better and better after that. He tracked that very well. If it were necessary for metabolism he'd be hypothyroid, and that would be plain to see. We all know the side effects of hypothyroidism. His hair would be ragged, he'd be gaining weight and swelling up and not have any energy. He's the opposite of that. So I haven't heard anything from you regarding this. I'm not like a robot just repeating what he said. I can understand science, he is doing his own science experiment and it's clear vitamin A isn't necessary to run the body.

The fun comment was in reference to you mentioning the forum rules regarding something I wrote. Yes and I've tried taking b complex and seperate minerals and it is not working and healing me in the same way the Parapack does. There is not much point arguing this stuff with you unless you have tried TEI's programme for yourself with their recommendations for your hair results. Otherwise it's pointless when you are only going by your own experience with Vitamin A which you were consuming on a ray peat diet in slow oxidation and that is always going to lead to Vitamin A toxicity issues, I've done both the ray peat in slow and TEI and the two aren't comparable.

Like I said before Grant doesn't sweat at all after an hour of moderate-intense exercise that is a clear sign of reduced thyroid activity. His whole demeanor is pretty low energy, depressed looking face he is not exactly bustling with energy. Hypothyroid doesn't just mean weight gain, ragged hair puffy face, I've actually been hypothyroid with different symptoms eg slim struggle to gain weight, not sweating at all. Even if he is not hypothyroid his thyroid activity is clearly not optimal. Slow oxidation means reduced adrenal and thyroid activity, the more so the higher the CA:K ratio but you can have skinny slow oxidisers and fat slow oxidisers yet they both have reduced thryoid function.

I'm not doubting Low Vitamin A can be healing, but just because he healed his kidney stuff it doesn't mean he operating at a high metabolism, I think it is the oppsoite of that he has slowed down his metabolism, lowered oxidation and thyroid acitivity by cutting out Vit A and given his body a chance to heal. I know the feeling on low Vit A when you're takiing a bunch of zinc it can make you feel very relaxed and increased vitality but it also slows me down and my thyroid and energy is worse.

And I've also wrote this before in other posts, just because the body is able to function without much Vitamin A intake at all, that doesn't mean it is the correct or ideal way the body should be operating in, as the human body is able to adapt to many different situations, it also doesn't automatically mean that Vitamin A is a toxin either.

Ask yourself this question do you really think in a person with optimal energy metabolism (producing high amounts of ATP) is going to struggle with something like Vitamin A which is in most foods, they wouldn't do. Likewise with eating onions again they shouldn't do but Grant does.

 

[purple pill]

When you say I need bile acids. Do you mean supplemental bile acids like ox bile?

I never eat beans and I have subconciously avoided them my whole life because as I know now, it completely stops bile flow for me.

Id imagine ox bile would be pretty toxic as well. Have you tried oats instead of beans? They seem to agree with me a lot more than beans. Especially with a touch of salt instead of sugar, acquired taste though lol

 

[charlie]

Id imagine ox bile would be pretty toxic as well. Have you tried oats instead of beans? They seem to agree with me a lot more than beans. Especially with a touch of salt instead of sugar, acquired taste though lol

Dr. Smith says it can work for some people as a "crutch" until they can get things moving.

 

[Hidden49]

I mean I wouldnt say skinny as in super skinny underfed. I am actually normal weight, pretty fit. I don't really gain too much fat ever. I am 6'1 at 165 pounds, when I was able to lift weight, I was at 180. So I'd say pretty normal weight. When I was a kid though, I was always really skinny, highly adrenalized. To this day, I think a lot of the fact why I don't gain weight is because I am always highly adrenalized, not because of good metabolism necessarily. Tho for the past 2 years, running off adrenaline for most of my life really has burnt me out and now I am suffering from this weird adrenal fatigue, where I dont have energy for anything, yet I cant sleep lying in bed wired but tired. Really, really bad state I am in right now. 25 y/o and can't work or do anything anymore really. And yes of course I've tried ice cream. During the hay day of peat eating I would down so much ice cream, sugar, sweets and junk food. No budge. During that time I actually just started looking more and more estrogenic and my prolactin raised, so it wasnt good. I look much better now but I feel way way worse.

Here are my most recent comprehensive labs. I don't think anything changed since then. I hope you can understand everything since its in german. Kupfer = copper. Eisen = iron. I will probably start my own thread finally soon and I hope all you guys can chime in because I am in a really really bad spot right now.

Yeah I'm also an undertype, what I've observed is the low Vitamin A diet works great for overtypes, but usually doesn't go that well for undertypes as there is more stuff at play other than just cutting out Vitamin A to fix things.

 

[InChristAlone]

The fun comment was in reference to you mentioning the forum rules regarding something I wrote. Yes and I've tried taking b complex and seperate minerals and it is not working and healing me in the same way the Parapack does. There is not much point arguing this stuff with you unless you have tried TEI's programme for yourself with their recommendations for your hair results. Otherwise it's pointless when you are only going by your own experience with Vitamin A which you were consuming on a ray peat diet in slow oxidation and that is always going to lead to Vitamin A toxicity issues, I've done both the ray peat in slow and TEI and the two aren't comparable.

Like I said before Grant doesn't sweat at all after an hour of moderate-intense exercise that is a clear sign of reduced thyroid activity. His whole demeanor is pretty low energy, depressed looking face he is not exactly bustling with energy. Hypothyroid doesn't just mean weight gain, ragged hair puffy face, I've actually been hypothyroid with different symptoms eg slim struggle to gain weight, not sweating at all. Even if he is not hypothyroid his thyroid activity is clearly not optimal. Slow oxidation means reduced adrenal and thyroid activity, the more so the higher the CA:K ratio but you can have skinny slow oxidisers and fat slow oxidisers yet they both have reduced thryoid function.

I'm not doubting Low Vitamin A can be healing, but just because he healed his kidney stuff it doesn't mean he operating at a high metabolism, I think it is the oppsoite of that he has slowed down his metabolism, lowered oxidation and thyroid acitivity by cutting out Vit A and given his body a chance to heal. I know the feeling on low Vit A when you're takiing a bunch of zinc it can make you feel very relaxed and increased vitality but it also slows me down and my thyroid and energy is worse.

And I've also wrote this before in other posts, just because the body is able to function without much Vitamin A intake at all, that doesn't mean it is the correct or ideal way the body should be operating in, as the human body is able to adapt to many different situations, it also doesn't automatically mean that Vitamin A is a toxin either.

Ask yourself this question do you really think in a person with optimal energy metabolism (producing high amounts of ATP) is going to struggle with something like Vitamin A which is in most foods, they wouldn't do. Likewise with eating onions again they shouldn't do but Grant does.

This was back in August on Grant's 9 year update: "My weight remains very steady. My strength in the gym remains excellent. I’m cycling more now that it is summer. I try to get in about 20 km per day." That's 12 miles for us americans not using the metric system.
"the age spots on my face have significantly faded this year."
"When I go skiing in the cold temperatures (say -20°C ) I’m perfectly comfortable." You forgot to mention that it isn't just not sweating, it's also not getting cold while skiing. Do you know any hypothyroid person that can ski and not get cold feet?
His joints are near perfect.

If that's a picture of someone declining into low thyroid then I'll take it! Clearly he's producing ATP just fine. My husband sweats excessively just doing mild activity, also gets out of breath, though he has a lot of muscle mass like a strongman. He is 287 pounds at 5'11. He has to use a CPAP at night. If he could be more like Grant's health I'd take it!

I think Grant could eat other foods, but he'd rather not, he is doing this to prove we don't need vit A. Onions aren't exactly a food animals are just salivating at are they? It's only us humans that think onions are so tasty, I've been avoiding them lately and had a bunch of garlic and onion last night, I nearly vomitted. It's vile stuff. Why do we eat it? I'd like to be able to eat it if I'm forced to, but I don't think it's actually a healthy food.

 

[charlie]

Yeah I'm also an undertype, what I've observed is the low Vitamin A diet works great for overtypes, but usually doesn't go that well for undertypes as there is more stuff at play other than just cutting out Vitamin A to fix things.

It just means its going to take a lot longer, that's the difference. When an over person might take 2 or 3 years to unlock, it might take an under type twice as long because the liver is severely compromised.

 

[InChristAlone]

Interesting. I just found Shawn Bean on facebook and he talks a lot about copper and these same things and he is the only guy I found who talks about low cholesterol as well and he recommends coq10. I havent tried it yet but I was about to.

To simplify, over types need less fat, store body fat easier. Undertypes barely gain weight, need more fat with meals to support bile.


Yeah I am still in shock how no doctor till this day beats an eye. I mention it every time and I have been to tons of doctors. No one thinks anything about it. They are incompetent.

Yes, I always thought I was leaning more towards "hyperthyroidism" in numbers. That's why I was cautious to try thyroid. I tried NDT once, just a tiny little bit and got a panic attack. That's why I am so sensitive to thyroid boosting substances as well as coffee. Because of the tiny cholesterol. My only thought today was after I tried the beans and it completely shut off bile production that thyroid might fix that, and by fixing bile production it might eventually lead to higher cholesterol levels again when whatever is gunking up my liver is loosened. But thats just my head canon. Every study shows that thyroid tremendously lowers cholesterol.

When you say I need bile acids. Do you mean supplemental bile acids like ox bile?

Yeah you are clearly an adrenaline type. I was like that too but with higher cholesterol. So it isn't just that. I would use ox bile yes but time it so you aren't messing with stomach acid. Like an hour before meals, or much later. And then back off when you get too much liquidy poop.

 

[purple pill]

Dr. Smith says it can work for some people as a "crutch" until they can get things moving.

I take it he recommends taking it along with fiber rich meals to make sure its not just absorbed in to the blood. just to keep the bowels moving?

 

[charlie]

I take it he recommends taking it along with fiber rich meals to make sure its not just absorbed in to the blood. just to keep the bowels moving?

I think that would be great advice but I do not know if he said that.

 

[taralynne]

I was also a chocolate addict. I ate 1-2 bars every day for years. I thought I was being smart and told people it's good for me. I took 1 or 2 bottles of copper supplements on top of that, over the course of 1-2 years.

My hair copper went sky high beyond the reference range. Half a year of chocolate avoidance and it was down to the high end of normal.

View attachment 61616

My digestion only stopped working once I stopped chocolate, coffee, spices, dairy, etc.

Within a couple weeks, everything was turned upside down as I realized what I had been doing to my body, seeing the true state of my liver and digestion.

That's such a great improvement! How did you manage to get off chocolate? Serious question... I've been struggling with this. My hair test was off the charts too at 156

 

[InChristAlone]

It just means its going to take a lot longer, that's the difference. When an over person might take 2 or 3 years to unlock, it might take an under type twice as long because the liver is severely compromised.

Exactly!