I've NEVER Seen "Coconut" Associated With Longevity or Centenarians

[Clyde]

I just realized that after reading about the diets of exceptionally healthy people in their 90s and older and I've never seen the word coconut once. I've seen they eat chocolate, bacon, eggs, olive oil, milk but never seen the word "coconut" in the context of a supercentenarian or really anyone over 90 tbh.

Then I started doing searches online, abstracts and I still can't find anything where you would decide to eat lots of coconut anything. I didn't see anything on lauric acid either but I'm assuming there's something out there.

So I couldn't say you should tell your elderly parents to switch from olive to coconut oil based on anything I've seen and I didn't see anything suggesting mct oil could increase longevity either (but there is research that it could improve Alzheimer's).

People are here for different reasons which is probably why I've never seen anyone even bring up the topic...ever. This just struck me as a strange oversite. Why aren't members in their 60s and 70s interested in this?

Hopefully we can sort this out and determine whether coconut is good for longevity for everyone including the senior members or people caring for seniors.

 

[laleto12]

coconut only grows in certain part of the world and old people don’t eat what they aren’t used to.

I can’t imagine my 80 year old grandma switching to an oil that she has never even heard of lol

 

[Clyde]

coconut only grows in certain part of the world and old people don’t eat what they aren’t used to.

I can’t imagine my 80 year old grandma switching to an oil that she has never even heard of lol

You make a fair point but why not at least a couple news clips or something? I've not seen a single blurb anywhere ever. Not that there aren't any but let's see.

 

[Jennifer]

I just realized that after reading about the diets of exceptionally healthy people in their 90s and older and I've never seen the word coconut once. I've seen they eat chocolate, bacon, eggs, olive oil, milk but never seen the word "coconut" in the context of a supercentenarian or really anyone over 90 tbh.

Then I started doing searches online, abstracts and I still can't find anything where you would decide to eat lots of coconut anything. I didn't see anything on lauric acid either but I'm assuming there's something out there.

So I couldn't say you should tell your elderly parents to switch from olive to coconut oil based on anything I've seen and I didn't see anything suggesting mct oil could increase longevity either (but there is research that it could improve Alzheimer's).

People are here for different reasons which is probably why I've never seen anyone even bring up the topic...ever. This just struck me as a strange oversite. Why aren't members in their 60s and 70s interested in this?

Hopefully we can sort this out and determine whether coconut is good for longevity for everyone including the senior members or people caring for seniors.

I think at one point, coconut oil was the most commonly used oil in processed foods in the U.S., no? I don’t know too many people who like coconut, but most people I know love butter so maybe that’s a factor in its lack of popularity?

Okay, I just did a quick search and coconut oil was a popular oil in Europe and the U.S. beginning at the end of the 19th century, and was America’s go-to cooking oil until WWII:

The Untold Truth Of Coconut Oil - Mashed

Superfoods are nutrient-dense, super healthy foods that we all know we should be working into our diets more often. Blueberries, salmon, kale, green tea... and coconut oil? That last one just doesn't seem to fit, but coconut oil has been touted as a health food for years. Is it really that healthy?

www.mashed.com

 

[Clyde]

I think at one point, coconut oil was the most commonly used oil in processed foods in the U.S., no? I don’t know too many people who like coconut, but most people I know love butter so maybe that’s a factor in its lack of popularity?

Okay, I just did a quick search and coconut oil was a popular oil in Europe and the U.S. beginning at the end of the 19th century, and was America’s go-to cooking oil until WWII:

The Untold Truth Of Coconut Oil - Mashed

Superfoods are nutrient-dense, super healthy foods that we all know we should be working into our diets more often. Blueberries, salmon, kale, green tea... and coconut oil? That last one just doesn't seem to fit, but coconut oil has been touted as a health food for years. Is it really that healthy?

www.mashed.com

Popularity could be a factor but it may be even more popular in places where it grows and would replace butter and olive oil too. Hopefully there are stories from non-English speaking countries.

By chance you might expect someone would continue using it from WWII on and live to 100. To your point, it's not like we're talking about some obscure product. It's been all over the world as a source of calories for long time now.

There are lots of aging experts out there and I've been interested in what they have to say. I've never heard one of them mention coconut, the oil or the whole food. I can include Ray Peat among the aging experts that have not mentioned coconut oil in the context of longevity.

I've checked to see what vegan diet experts have to say on diet and aging. Coconut is vegan. I've never seen any of them recommend or admit to eating coconut. Many say avoid coconut but endorse nuts, seeds, soy etc.

Bryan Johnson, the recently famous "competitive ager" eats some weird, scientific, nonsense diet. It's high fat vegan with nuts and seeds but no coconut.

I hope someone on the forum can make the case that coconut products can improve how someone ages.


tongue in cheek but:

Death By Coconut: A Story Of Food Obsession Gone Too Far​

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/12/03/457124796/death-by-coconut-a-story-of-food-obsession-gone-too-far

From 1902 to 1919, Engelhardt lived on a beautiful South Pacific island, eating nothing but the fruit of Cocos nucifera, which he believed was the panacea for all mankind's woes. Except that a coconut mono-diet proved to be a terrible idea. At the end of his life, der Kokovore was reduced to a mentally ill, rheumatic, severely malnourished sack of bones with ulcers on his legs. He was only 44.

 

[Jennifer]

I've checked to see what vegan diet experts have to say on diet and aging. Coconut is vegan. I've never seen any of them recommend or admit to eating coconut. Many say avoid coconut but endorse nuts, seeds, soy etc.

Because they believe in the theory that saturated fats cause heart disease.

 

[Jennifer]

Popularity could be a factor but it may be very popular in places where it grows. So maybe there are stories from non-English speaking countries.

To your point, it's not like we're talking about some obscure product. It's been all over the world as a source of calories for long time now.

Countries where it doesn’t grow have had access to it for centuries and like I said, I don’t know many people who like coconut, but most of the people I know love butter. I happen to love coconut, but I don’t think there is anything particularly special about it.

 

[DennisX]

bump

 

[Clyde]

Coconut oil is as good as whale oil but better than butter regarding mortality. Butter actually loses to rapeseed oil (canola) several times. Don't feed your rodent butter.

I don't actually know how to read these studies correctly. I'm just tossing this out there for anyone interested.

Acta Medica Scandinavica

Physiopathological Effects of Rapeseed Oil: A Review
KERSTIN BORG
First published: January/December 1975

Effect of different fats on longevity Male rats fed a diet containing 50 cal% rapeseed oil ad libitum lived 20 to 25 %longer than those fed a corresponding butterfat containing diet. Growth rate and daily food intake were lower for the group receiving rapeseed oil diet. Histological examination gave no clear information about the cause of death (74). A later experiment with different amounts of rapeseed oil or butterfat in the diet justified the conclusion, that on feeding rapeseed oil the life-span of rats is not shortened (78). Thomasson et a1(78) also studied the effect of different oils on the life-span of rats. The mortality in the groups fed maize oil, soybean oil, coconut oil, whale oil or rapeseed oil was practically the same, but the butterfat group displayed a shorter life-span. Also in experiments with mice butterfat diet caused shorter life-span than rapeseed oil diet (78).

 

[tokimaturi]

You left out the reason why, if you've never seen any indication that coconut is a pro-longevity food, you thought it might be.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Coconut oil is as good as whale oil but better than butter regarding mortality. Butter actually loses to rapeseed oil (canola) several times. Don't feed your rodent butter.

I don't actually know how to read these studies correctly. I'm just tossing this out there for anyone interested.

Acta Medica Scandinavica

Physiopathological Effects of Rapeseed Oil: A Review
KERSTIN BORG
First published: January/December 1975

I highly recommend Ray Peat's articles on the raypeat.com website. There you can spend hours/weeks/months reading and understanding some of Ray's orientation and point of view of Metabolism - both from cellular biology and from the whole organism = us. Search my friend.

I have had whale, and seal oil, in the villages of AK. Yep, it is good stuff for my metabolism in that environment. Over and out.

 

[Birdie]

I highly recommend Ray Peat's articles on the raypeat.com website. There you can spend hours/weeks/months reading and understanding some of Ray's orientation and point of view of Metabolism - both from cellular biology and from the whole organism = us. Search my friend.

I have had whale, and seal oil, in the villages of AK. Yep, it is good stuff for my metabolism in that environment. Over and out.

I agree. It's good to read at the beginning. Otherwise no way to understand Ray Peat's work. And, after many years, I find I'm still surprised/edified. With all the popular nutrition ideas we get off track. True especially if you worked in the field.

 

[Clyde]

You left out the reason why, if you've never seen any indication that coconut is a pro-longevity food, you thought it might be.

I wasn't thinking of longevity at all until the last few months. I was avoiding unsaturated oils because of very bad chronic migraines. Coconut oil seemed like a good option and it's available locally. I've been using it for over a decade. I never had a bad thought about it until a few hours before posting this.

It may be much better than many other oils and may have medicinal or functional uses. But that doesn't necessarily mean you will benefit by consuming large amounts (or any) for decades.

 

[Clyde]

I highly recommend Ray Peat's articles on the raypeat.com website. There you can spend hours/weeks/months reading and understanding some of Ray's orientation and point of view of Metabolism - both from cellular biology and from the whole organism = us. Search my friend.

I have had whale, and seal oil, in the villages of AK. Yep, it is good stuff for my metabolism in that environment. Over and out.

In a forum named after Ray Peat, we honor his memory by questioning everything

Whale oil is at least 20% pufa. Seal oil is near 30. What were you thinking? :)

 

[AlaskaJono]

I wasn't thinking of longevity at all until the last few months. I was avoiding unsaturated oils because of very bad chronic migraines. Coconut oil seemed like a good option and it's available locally. I've been using it for over a decade. I never had a bad thought about it until a few hours before posting this.

It may be much better than many other oils and may have medicinal or functional uses. But that doesn't necessarily mean you will benefit by consuming large amounts (or any) for decades.

Large amounts of fat consumption probably not a great idea for longevity purposes, but then... the Okinawakin's diet cooking oil consisted of mainly pork fat until post WW2. And they ate large amounts of veggies and ocean veggies, with less fish and meat I think like 20% ish of protein in their diet. So.... old timers in the USA lived until 100 who ate food cooked in pork fat (in a can above the kitchen sink) back in the day.... . Just sayin', times are a changing (like eating food - ie pork and pork fat - that ate good clean food....).

Regarding the coco oil, we have used only refined coconut oil for many years. What kind have you been using? My wife feels that the fragrant coco oil is not as 'clean' for her GI tract. The refined stuff is steam cleaned basically, and I think I remember correctly that this process does remove some other impurities (Like the 'free fatty acids'!!!) .

We use about 8 litres of Olive oil a year that we buy from a farmer- organic kinda, store bought steam processed Coconut oil, and local butter (not organic). That is the best we can do here, and it is and has been fine and dandy. Eating out just causes problems as some restaurants now don't even use butter anymore to cook or grill ( on a plate grill). Besides the other sh*te ingredients.

 

[AlaskaJono]

In a forum named after Ray Peat, we honor his memory by questioning everything

Whale oil is at least 20% pufa. Seal oil is near 30. What were you thinking? :)

I was living out far in the bush for a while, in the village, pop. about 250 Alaska Natives and a couple of white folks (2 or 3 teachers), me one of them caucausians. They kinda accepted me as 1) they thought I was Australian, even though I am American, and 2) I was involved in a special project to provide Acupuncture services for a month in an effort to provide support for the non-alcohol/non-drug using crew, and 3) I played the drums, so joined their Rock Band for the month as the drummer had just recently had a baby in the fam.
Also I ate up all the octopus and seal meat, moose ribs, wallowing in seal oil that you ladle on your plate, muktuk- whale blubber with a bit o meat on it, smoked salmon, and I even had some of the stinkheads/fermented fish eyeballs, considered a delicacy. That last one I did not go for another serving. But they appreciated that I gave it a go. The oil metabolises very quickly for me, and I was impressed that I warmed up like a furnace. It was winter so prolly 0 F or -20 C ... somewhere round there. Eat from the country you are in when and where possible. YMMV.

 

[Clyde]

I was living out far in the bush for a while, in the village, pop. about 250 Alaska Natives and a couple of white folks (2 or 3 teachers), me one of them caucausians. They kinda accepted me as 1) they thought I was Australian, even though I am American, and 2) I was involved in a special project to provide Acupuncture services for a month in an effort to provide support for the non-alcohol/non-drug using crew, and 3) I played the drums, so joined their Rock Band for the month as the drummer had just recently had a baby in the fam.
Also I ate up all the octopus and seal meat, moose ribs, wallowing in seal oil that you ladle on your plate, muktuk- whale blubber with a bit o meat on it, smoked salmon, and I even had some of the stinkheads/fermented fish eyeballs, considered a delicacy. That last one I did not go for another serving. But they appreciated that I gave it a go. The oil metabolises very quickly for me, and I was impressed that I warmed up like a furnace. It was winter so prolly 0 F or -20 C ... somewhere round there. Eat from the country you are in when and where possible. YMMV.

Your life reads like a movie script. It reminds me of the frontier books I read in school growing up. You were smart to avoid a life of cubicles only to have boring stories about copy machines :).

I've been using refined CO and VCO from local stores and amazon. I haven't noticed any particular issue using them. I use other low pufa fats too but at times I would use mostly CO.

After a fireinthebottle inspired experiment I gained 5lbs of weight about as fast as possible and seemingly all in my abdomen. I didn't notice an increase in my metabolic rate either. I'm sure I was less healthy at the end of the experiments but nothing remarkable. It had a very clever objective but I've never been more than 20lbs overweight in my life so I can't say whether it worked.

I hope members consider whether foods and habits that take someone to 100 help them reach 40 in good health too. It's possible these very old human outliers avoid doing things that others do that chip away at health over time. I wondered whether eating coconut products is one of those thing that chip away because of how completely absent the food seems to be from their diets and I've never seen an expert in the field use or recommend coconut products.

There are people like me in this forum consuming lots of the stuff. Just recently I was considering doubling down by getting hydrogenated coconut oil.

I'll add that it's especially hard for me to imagine Europeans well adapted to eating tropical oils with very strange fatty acid profiles. You're eating exotic tropical fat in Alaska, pretty bizarre if you think about it. Chocolate seems to work out but it's close to suet in many ways and it's very high in polyphenols.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Your life reads like a movie script. It reminds me of the frontier books I read in school growing up. You were smart to avoid a life of cubicles only to have boring stories about copy machines :).

I've been using refined CO and VCO from local stores and amazon. I haven't noticed any particular issue using them. I use other low pufa fats too but at times I would use mostly CO.

After a fireinthebottle inspired experiment I gained 5lbs of weight about as fast as possible and seemingly all in my abdomen. I didn't notice an increase in my metabolic rate either. I'm sure I was less healthy at the end of the experiments but nothing remarkable. It had a very clever objective but I've never been more than 20lbs overweight in my life so I can't say whether it worked.

I hope members consider whether foods and habits that take someone to 100 help them reach 40 in good health too. It's possible these very old human outliers avoid doing things that others do that chip away at health over time. I wondered whether eating coconut products is one of those thing that chip away because of how completely absent the food seems to be from their diets and I've never seen an expert in the field use or recommend coconut products.

There are people like me in this forum consuming lots of the stuff. Just recently I was considering doubling down by getting hydrogenated coconut oil.

I'll add that it's especially hard for me to imagine Europeans well adapted to eating tropical oils with very strange fatty acid profiles. You're eating exotic tropical fat in Alaska, pretty bizarre if you think about it. Chocolate seems to work out but it's close to suet in many ways and it's very high in polyphenols.

Years ago whilst still in AK, I had some friends over for dinner, and my mate is a very good cook too. He said, "Wow, this dish is so delicious, what's in it?" it was just roast chickens not organic but range free those days, and veggies. Also, a bit o butter in there. I told him I never gave up on butter, since my childhood.
I probably cook with 50% butter, 30% olive oil, and 20 % coconut. My wife probably uses more coconut and less butter when she cooks. Last few years I probably cook 2/3 of the time.

Regarding movie scripts, yes, one's own life is (or can be) written by you. Most folks go with the flow of what they grew up in, or moved into via job/family/karma, etc.., but also one can create new flows. I do not want to repeat what I did 10 years ago. Even if it was awesome! Or not awesome..... . Cheers.

 

[Clyde]

This Japanese longevity expert lived to 105 — here's what he ate every day​

Published Fri, Apr 5 2019 11:26 AM EDTUpdated Fri, Apr 5 2019 1:58 PM EDT

For breakfast he drank coffee, a glass of milk and some orange juice with a tablespoon of olive oil in it. "Olive oil is great for the arteries and keeps my skin healthy," he told The Japan Times.

His lunch was perhaps surprising, as it often consisted of milk and a few cookies or "nothing when I am too busy to eat."

Dinner was "veggies, a bit of fish and rice, and twice a week 100 grams of lean meat," Hinohara said.

Longevity expert Dr. Shigeaki Hinohara lived to be 105 years old. His food choices are noteworthy because he is educated in the field of longevity and succeeded in living past 100 in a deliberate fashion.

He included olive oil and many RP foods in his diet. This is one of the most RP friendly diets I've seen from a centenarian. It's low fat and low pufa.

He obviously didn't think adding CO would help.

This Japanese longevity expert lived to 105 — here's what he ate every day

Dr. Shigeaki Hinohara, author of "Living Long, Living Good," ate the same thing almost every day and worked until he was more than 100 years old.

www.cnbc.com

 

[ecstatichamster]

I think a bit of coconut oil is good for cooking with. But in general, people who live a really long time, en masse, subsist on a diet that is high in carbs and lowish in fat and lowish in protein, and lowish in calories.

BTW, in Okinawa when they were eating very traditionally, they ate mostly sweet potatoes and seldom ate pork. If they used pork fat in cooking, they didn’t use that much of it, and they probably had fed the hogs sweet potatoes so the fat would have been highly saturated or monosaturated to begin with.

I started a Peat-inspired diet around 2015 and gained a lot of fat. Today I am leaner and meaner (for sure, that) and can easily maintain my level of fat, and have good muscle mass.

I never found anyone who ate a lot of fat over a long period of time, who I would consider healthy. Whether it’s coconut oil or any other type of fat, we humans are designed to eat carbs for fuel, and use fat as an emergency food source.