Peat Eating And Weight Gain

[kettlebell]

Some say that lower metabolism makes you live longer

This debate is ongoing (Somehow)

Danny Roddy has covered the rate of living argument here: http://www.dannyroddy.com/2012/6/11/who ... orpor.html

I am in no doubt whatsoever that having a healthy, high metabolism promotes longer life than lowering the metabolism would.

Higher metabolism = increased rate of repair and cell renewal = longer life

 

[narouz]

I will do some checking with my thyroid. However, perhaps that temperature is simply one way of looking at things, not something absolute. I am not just healthy, I am very healthy. I have zero allergies (at least that I am aware of). I don't get sick, and am much stronger than people younger than me. Some say that lower metabolism makes you live longer. Also state of consciousness affects body temperature. People in mediation have lower temperature.

Kris-
I guess it is kind of strange:
here we are trying to talk an extraordinarily healthy person
into believing he should be worried about his health.

Well...I will only say that I was a lot like you when I was 50.
I was very athletic, muscular, pretty trim.
I "felt fine" as far as I could tell.
I didn't get sick very often.
My pulse rate was very low, 60's or even 50's.
I didn't pay attention to my temps then.

After a few years of eating a low-fat kind of diet,
I started feeling not so great.
Low energy.
Low libido.
More frequent feeling of fear or anger (fight or flighty type feelings).
Not sleeping well.
Some impaired sexual function.
Less creative mojo--oomph to do the fun things I had set as goal.
Feelings of just needing to rest and shelter.
More contracted, less outgoing.
I was diagnosed as very hypothyroid.

Even after I found a somewhat "alternative,"
somewhat open-minded doctor who agreed to let me take natural thyroid,
he told me my low pulse rate and low temps were great.

It reflects a fundamentally different view of health from Dr. Peat's.

 

[Kris]

Thank you narouz. How many years have you been taking thyroid supplements. Is there cure for hypothyroidism, or one has to supplement it one's whole life?

 

[Kris]

It is interesting that Paul Jaminet reports having his pulse 50 and considers it just fine.

 

[cliff]

It is interesting that Paul Jaminet reports having his pulse 50 and considers it just fine.

?

 

[narouz]

An extra benefit of carrot fiber

"An extra benefit of carrot fiber, besides the bulk and moisture-holding properties, is that it captures and holds fat molecules, removing them from the body and making weight loss easier. The small amount of sugar in carrots is released slowly, so thai it doesn·t disturb blood sugar as much as would the same amount in a different form.”--Ray Peat

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/09/28/ray-peat-phd-on-the-benefits-of-the-raw-carrot/

This quote is from the Functional Performance Systems site.
They do not give the source (beyond that it is from Peat),
but I suspect it may be from Peat's early “Nutrition for Women."
(Yes, it is.)

 

[user123]

Hey narouz,

That's a really interesting topic and unfortunately I didn't have the time to read all the replies (so I don't know if someone already posted this). I just wanted to remark that I read about another hypothesis that might interest you.

A nutrition blogger called Matt Stone claims that switching from a state of starvation (he includes calorie and carb restricted diets) to eating to apetite causes the body to temporarily gain large amounts of fat, especially around the waist, while it's adjusting back to a high metabolism.

He bases his opinion on a semi starvation study by Ancel Keys where healthy people were put on a diet which met half their calorie needs for a few months. Their metabolism slowed down and their mood changed significantly. When they were 'refed' they gained about twice the weight they had lost mostly in fat before slowly loosing it again over the following year.

I tried both calorie restriction and then low carb (with lots of aerobic exercise) and at first I lost like 20 pounds, but then started to feel like ***t and get wrinkles around my eyes and grey hair (I'm 26). So I went back to eating carbs and everything and gained around 40 pounds
I try to follow Peat's ideas, especially the high protein (gelatin) and no PUFA.
I feel better and have more energy, but I honestly hate being this fat, so I hope Stone is right and it's just temporarily.

Hope this is helpful :)

 

[charlie]

user123, welcome to the board!

I really hope Matt Stone is right too!!!!!

 

[narouz]

Hey narouz,

That's a really interesting topic and unfortunately I didn't have the time to read all the replies (so I don't know if someone already posted this). I just wanted to remark that I read about another hypothesis that might interest you.

A nutrition blogger called Matt Stone claims that switching from a state of starvation (he includes calorie and carb restricted diets) to eating to apetite causes the body to temporarily gain large amounts of fat, especially around the waist, while it's adjusting back to a high metabolism.

He bases his opinion on a semi starvation study by Ancel Keys where healthy people were put on a diet which met half their calorie needs for a few months. Their metabolism slowed down and their mood changed significantly. When they were 'refed' they gained about twice the weight they had lost mostly in fat before slowly loosing it again over the following year.

I tried both calorie restriction and then low carb (with lots of aerobic exercise) and at first I lost like 20 pounds, but then started to feel like ***t and get wrinkles around my eyes and grey hair (I'm 26). So I went back to eating carbs and everything and gained around 40 pounds
I try to follow Peat's ideas, especially the high protein (gelatin) and no PUFA.
I feel better and have more energy, but I honestly hate being this fat, so I hope Stone is right and it's just temporarily.

Hope this is helpful :)

user123--

It would be interesting to know how many on this forum
come to Peating from some version of High Protein/Low Carb
(primal, paleo, caveman, Protein Power, Atkins, etc).

Cliff McCrary guesses that most (or at least many)
come to Peat eating from such a background
and thus often face certain kinds of predictable challenges,
prominently Weight Gain.

Taking a stab at it in a very general way,
I guess low-carbers have adapted their bodies to run on/burn primarily FAT
for energy.
And they probably consume a lot of PUFA.
Those factors have a negative impact on metabolism,
slowing it down and making it inefficient.

So, what predictably seems to happen with us former low-carbers,
upon switching to Peat,
and downing vast amounts of sugars
(and for many, depending on how one construes a Peat diet, starches)...

...well, the body has become accustomed to run on fat.
Now it has to figure out how to re-fit itself to run on sugars.
That takes time--
time until the metabolism re-orients and runs more efficiently.
Thus: weight gain.

I personally think this is a bit of a murky area within PeatDom,
and a murky area with which many will struggle--
again, back to the hypothesis that many who try Peating
have a background in low-carbing.
I say murky because Peat doesn't address it in a lot of detail.
I speculate that one reason for this is that Peat isn't very interested in weight-gain
in the sense of appearances: how svelte we are, if we have 6-pack abs, etc.

Peat's general advice on the weight-gain scenario described above is:
stay the course in correcting the metabolism,
and, over time, one's weight will correct to a healthy level.
I think it's the "over time" part that causes frustration and just plain giving up on Peating.
Peat says it takes patience and can be tricky
because there can be numerous different obstacles to figure out how to get around individually:
deficiencies, PUFA release, light, CO2, etc.
Peat notes that it can take up to 4 years for the stored PUFA in tissue to be evacuated from the body.
Until then, it would seem, that PUFA will continue to pose a drag on the metabolism.

Bottom line and in IMO:
it IS a lot to expect of a person trying the Peat diet--
to continue to Believe in the diet,
which I argue is a quite difficult diet for most--
to stick with such a diet while seeing one's body blob and swell,
or at least not shrink and slim...for Years...
Ya really gotta Believe.

 

[j.]

Ya really gotta Believe.

that is if your only objective is weight loss or if you don't see improvements in other areas. i saw many seemingly unrelated and annoying problems disappear after 2 or 3 months of peating, or just eliminating PUFAs really, so i wouldn't even have considered changing my diet.

 

[narouz]

Ya really gotta Believe.

that is if your only objective is weight loss or if you don't see improvements in other areas. i saw many seemingly unrelated and annoying problems disappear after 2 or 3 months of peating, or just eliminating PUFAs really, so i wouldn't even have considered changing my diet.

You make a good point, J.

 

[Ray-Z]

Helpful quote from Kate's friend, Emma Sgourakis (Peat-style nutritionist who writes at thenutritioncoach.com.au):

[W]e use fat stores at rest in a non-stressed state when the metabolic rate is high, but not when inflammatory mediators are high (melatonin, estrogen, cortisol, adrenalin etc). So fat-loss is inhibited while adrenalin is high (on the flip side, bone and muscle loss are accelerated).

(Quote is from Emma's article "Sleep Like a Babe": http://www.thenutritioncoach.com.au/ant ... ke-a-babe/.)

This quote may not tell us anything entirely new, but it's a nice, succinct explanation for why some people (like me) keep their excess weight for a while even while enjoying other benefits from Peating. Diet has improved, but stress hormones aren't completely banished...

 

[Birdie]

Helpful quote from Kate's friend, Emma Sgourakis (Peat-style nutritionist who writes at thenutritioncoach.com.au):

[W]e use fat stores at rest in a non-stressed state when the metabolic rate is high, but not when inflammatory mediators are high (melatonin, estrogen, cortisol, adrenalin etc). So fat-loss is inhibited while adrenalin is high (on the flip side, bone and muscle loss are accelerated).

(Quote is from Emma's article "Sleep Like a Babe": http://www.thenutritioncoach.com.au/ant ... ke-a-babe/.)

This quote may not tell us anything entirely new, but it's a nice, succinct explanation for why some people (like me) keep their excess weight for a while even while enjoying other benefits from Peating. Diet has improved, but stress hormones aren't completely banished...

I liked to hear this Ray. Thanks for it.

I hope I can encourage somebody by saying that I have lost the weight I first gained on Peat's way. And have lost more. I hope that my inflammatory mediators are truly low by now. I think I see evidence that they are at least low-er than they were. And part of that evidence is the weight.

I'm very thankful. It has been slow and there were times....

 

[narouz]

[I'm very thankful. It has been slow and there were times....

No Birdie! Step back from the ledge!! It's not as bad as you think!!!
(I know how you feel. )

 

[cliff]

that quote isn't correct. When stress hormones are high you rely more on fat for energy.

 

[charlie]

Cliff, thank you for setting the record straight.

 

[narouz]

I don't think I've posted this bit from the Stop the Thyroid Madness site:

Mary Shomon: Do you have any thoughts for thyroid patients who are trying to do everything right, and yet still can't lose any weight?

Dr. Ray Peat: Coconut oil added to the diet can increase the metabolic rate. Small frequent feedings, each combining some carbohydrate and some protein, such as fruit and cheese, often help to keep the metabolic rate higher. Eating raw carrots can prevent the absorption of estrogen from the intestine, allowing the liver to more effectively regulate metabolism. If a person doesn't lose excess weight on a moderately low calorie diet with adequate protein, it's clear that the metabolic rate is low. The number of calories burned is a good indicator of the metabolic rate. The amount of water lost by evaporation is another rough indicator: For each liter of water evaporated, about 1000 calories are burned.

 

[Birdie]

I don't think I've posted this bit from the Stop the Thyroid Madness site:

Mary Shomon: Do you have any thoughts for thyroid patients who are trying to do everything right, and yet still can't lose any weight?

Dr. Ray Peat: Coconut oil added to the diet can increase the metabolic rate. Small frequent feedings, each combining some carbohydrate and some protein, such as fruit and cheese, often help to keep the metabolic rate higher. Eating raw carrots can prevent the absorption of estrogen from the intestine, allowing the liver to more effectively regulate metabolism. If a person doesn't lose excess weight on a moderately low calorie diet with adequate protein, it's clear that the metabolic rate is low. The number of calories burned is a good indicator of the metabolic rate. The amount of water lost by evaporation is another rough indicator: For each liter of water evaporated, about 1000 calories are burned.

Great reminder. I love this stuff that helps keep me on track.

In case anybody is new, CO and weight is also covered in the Food Quality interview. And he talks about it on Eluv's interview on Fats.

For me, for a lot of reasons, it's frequent fruit and protein.

 

[gretchen]

I gained some much needed weight after starting on Peat, about 10 lbs, and have started restricting again a little (a few hundred calories less per day) to see what happens. I'm hungry, but not as much as I was initially. My waist is good so I'm happy with that. I didn't gain that much on my waist actually....

I think the solution for most is to calculate the calories for activity level and go from there. I eat only about 200 more per day than bmr which is pretty low cal. Eventually I will do lab tests and see what's going on; ie, if restriction affects my system. My sleep is ok though no, it's not 100% stress free.

 

[gretchen]

Calorie restriction is bad for pulse....mine is down to 70. Ugh, it totally sucks. I'm small boned and don't like the way I look at a higher weight. Not sure how I ever did it when I was younger.