Announcement Ray Peat Cultists & Cries of Authoritarianism

[Nick]

Just to add, I am wondering if I am seeing erroneous things as well. One poster suggested that Peat really didn't think much of Vitamin A to begin with. Then I heard today a story of how Peat got ill after stopping pregnenolone and then some theory was given about liver overload or something or other, and the fact that he blamed it on problems with the product, but in my memory he said he stopped taking pregnenolone because he no longer saw results and instead focused on increasing light exposure. He did recommend the purest forms fo pregenenolone and any supplement, and also suggested a short duration of use just to correct any deficiency, not overloading on anything. I don't see any of that nuance here. It is entirely possible that I just did not hear him speak about getting ill after stopping pregnenolone until starting it again, but sometimes I feel like history is being rewritten and nuance is being lost and everything can be blamed now on the liver being overloaded with this or that and needing detox. Just my two cents.

It's a story he told in an interview, as far as I remember he said that he had been taking pregnenelone dissolved in vitamin E, then switched to a new bottle of vitamin E with no pregnenelone and became sick and bed ridden for I believe a week until he realized that he had stopped taking pregnenelone by switching bottles of vitamin E. Sorry I don't remember if it was a Politics and Science episode or maybe an Ask Your Herb Doctors episode, I heard it years ago and it always made me wonder about why he didn't get concerned about the apparent withdrawal symptoms he got.

 

[Izzybelle]

It's a story he told in an interview, as far as I remember he said that he had been taking pregnenelone dissolved in vitamin E, then switched to a new bottle of vitamin E with no pregnenelone and became sick and bed ridden for I believe a week until he realized that he had stopped taking pregnenelone by switching bottles of vitamin E. Sorry I don't remember if it was a Politics and Science episode or maybe an Ask Your Herb Doctors episode, I heard it years ago and it always made me wonder about why he didn't get concerned about the apparent withdrawal symptoms he got.

Thanks for the clarification. It still sounds odd to me. I've taken pregenolone both low and high dose (powder form though) experimentally for a while -- just got kind of a high from it like after spending the day in the sun -- but never experienced any kind of withdrawal. It does sound like it could have something to do w/the vitamin E, but I haven't heard the story for myself. He did say somewhere that he stopped taking pregnenolone when he no longer felt the effects from it and decided to increase sun/light exposure instead.

 

[Izzybelle]

Also it seems like with Ray there was a progression in his work. He started with progesterone and then sort of worked his way up experimenting with and researching the precursors to the sex hormones -- pregnenolone, DHEA...,then Vitamin A, thyroid. He eventually concluded that healing the thyroid or supplementing thyroid was the long-term approach to take after experimenting with the others which he openly discussed and many of us tried it for short-term relief. He recommended progesterone cyclically for women w/estrogenic problems but bottles progest-e come with instructions that recommend thyroid supplementation if needing large doses of progesterone or extreme estrogenic symptoms.

 

[BobbyJackson]

I have red some testimonies against this low Vitamin A diet as well, like this one:

Why We Stopped the Vitamin A Detox Diet...and Why Healing Diets Fail | Just Take A Bite

Ever heard of the Vitamin A Detox Diet? Wondering if it is the cure you've been searching for or just the next dietary fad? This is our family's journey on the VAD Diet and why we stopped it after a year.

justtakeabite.com

 

[Nimo]

I have red some testimonies against this low Vitamin A diet as well, like this one:

Why We Stopped the Vitamin A Detox Diet...and Why Healing Diets Fail | Just Take A Bite

Ever heard of the Vitamin A Detox Diet? Wondering if it is the cure you've been searching for or just the next dietary fad? This is our family's journey on the VAD Diet and why we stopped it after a year.

justtakeabite.com

interesting, how can someone be deficient in zinc if red meat is highly suggested, lean cuts, also B1 as whole grains are recomended and they are rich B1 food. also grains are good source of magnesium. when this diet is set right, it should be low only on vitaminA and maybe Copper for some or Zinc to copper should be 40:1 if someone have copper toxicity.

 

[charlie]

nteresting, how can someone be deficient in zinc if red meat is highly suggested,

Because for some reason detoxing is very demanding on zinc and some people need quite a bit of it. And as Smith suggests B1 is simply an antidote for toxins. So with toxins moving around and exiting an antidote can help because it is poison on the way out.

 

[mosaic01]

It's very important to question certain ideas of Ray Peat when it comes to practical food choices and diet. It also builds on one of Peat's last realizations of adding in oats as a source of soluble fiber, which went into the right direction.

Ray Peat read Grant Genereux but did not accept his conclusions. His scientific mindset made him focus on all the logical errors instead of the whole picture.

It's on us to continue the brilliance of Ray Peat. He once said that there needs to be a movement that restores wholeness and regeneration on the level of society. Here we now have the keys to this regeneration. Combining the Ray Peat principles with the toxic bile detox knowledge could help create that movement Peat dreamed about. Increasing CO2, avoiding PUFA, seeking out stimulating social experiences and environments, and using red light is a solid foundation.

The realization of Blake - there is a limit to contraction, but no limit to expansion, which also formed Peats view on biological systems, seems to be a good guiding principle. But Peat never discovered all of the tools necessary to kickstart the expansion.

I don't know charlie, but it's obvious that his heart is in the right place. Everyone makes mistakes and being an admin is difficult as you can't make everyone happy. It can feel bad for long-term members if the ideological place one got used to disappears, but it should be clear to any open-minded person that the general direction followed by Grant Genereux, Garret Smith and others is indeed essential and needs to be incorporated into the framework of this forum. This is basically the blind spot of the Ray Peat community, and it's no wonder that many are having a meltdown because they are not ready to look into this dark side of their ideology.

Karen Hurd has figured out the importance of bile detox years ago already, and is a great resource on this, the Grant Genereux forum also has lots of information.

On the other hand, presenting small bits of information coming from a closed group around a cherry-picking Garret Smith as gospel without deeper explanation and discussion obviously will alienate many here, so it's important to have an open-minded discussion about specific concepts. Beyond the general direction, there are many open questions around specifics, which is naturally the case when empirical data is lacking. Information and arguments need to be dissected publicly. After all, this is a discussion forum and it lives from sharing knowledge, sources and perspectives openly.

 

[charlie]

@mosaic01that was beautiful, thank you.

 

[sunny]

@charlie , would you make a thread that would start with something like this:
"My typical day of eating/supplements the way I did Peat VS my typical day of eating/supplements the way I do low VA. "

Also, if you have lab tests during these times such as liver enzymes, iron panels, inflammation markers, cbc, cmp, etc.

I request that just to get right to the heart of the matter because I only have a couple spare hours in the day right now ( monster work schedule), and it would take me months to read through the 500 some page low va thread.

Anyway,

I'm always interested in health approaches. I did vegetarian for awhile, and I liked it, but mostly because I don't like meat much. I think it was detrimental to my growing child. Thankfully I started reading Peat.

I tried keto for like a week and quickly knew that was not for me.

I am a small female, so I instinctly knew I could not support gallons of milk and oj a day on Peat principles.

If you are so inclined with the above request, it would be appreciated.

 

[charlie]

@charlie , would you make a thread that would start with something like this:
"My typical day of eating/supplements the way I did Peat VS my typical day of eating/supplements the way I do low VA. "

@sunny I will get to that soon as I can. I have a tremendous workload at the moment but I have planned on doing a thread like that.

 

[sunny]

@sunny I will get to that soon as I can. I have a tremendous workload at the moment but I have planned on doing a thread like that.

That would be great, I look forward to it.
If you can include lab tests also.
I keep a running yearly log of my tests for years.
The only problem I have run into is when I tanked my cholesterol on vegetarian.

 

[InChristAlone]

I have red some testimonies against this low Vitamin A diet as well, like this one:

Why We Stopped the Vitamin A Detox Diet...and Why Healing Diets Fail | Just Take A Bite

Ever heard of the Vitamin A Detox Diet? Wondering if it is the cure you've been searching for or just the next dietary fad? This is our family's journey on the VAD Diet and why we stopped it after a year.

justtakeabite.com

I remember that lady in the vitamin A facebook group from the beginning. She was one of the first to take on going low vit A for her family. It was before we knew about the toxic bile stuff. So the diet was basically just avoiding all sources of vitamin A. We didn't have all pieces of the puzzle yet. Also she doesn't say what a day of eating actually looked like, maybe they were undereating, that's very possible because she seems orthorexic. She went right back to her 'healthy diet'. Eating the rainbow of vegetables. I will never go back to eating the rainbow even if it comes out that we need a certain level of vit A. I much prefer animal sources.

 

[Kimster]

@charlie , would you make a thread that would start with something like this:
"My typical day of eating/supplements the way I did Peat VS my typical day of eating/supplements the way I do low VA. "

Also, if you have lab tests during these times such as liver enzymes, iron panels, inflammation markers, cbc, cmp, etc.

I request that just to get right to the heart of the matter because I only have a couple spare hours in the day right now ( monster work schedule), and it would take me months to read through the 500 some page low va thread.

Anyway,

I'm always interested in health approaches. I did vegetarian for awhile, and I liked it, but mostly because I don't like meat much. I think it was detrimental to my growing child. Thankfully I started reading Peat.

I tried keto for like a week and quickly knew that was not for me.

I am a small female, so I instinctly knew I could not support gallons of milk and oj a day on Peat principles.

If you are so inclined with the above request, it would be appreciated.

Curious as to your blood type? Type A are natural Vegetarians. Book : Eat Right 4 Your Type

 

[sunny]

Curious as to your blood type? Type A are natural Vegetarians. Book : Eat Right 4 Your Type

I am B+

 

[Kimster]

I am B+

All About Blood Type B​

B Blood Type Diet | Dr. Peter D’Adamo | Eat Right 4 Your Type

Learn about the B blood type diet, including strengths, weaknesses, the best foods to eat & more. View the quick guide from Dr. Peter D’Adamo.

www.4yourtype.com

Pulled this from web site, I lent my book to someone.

 

[honey]

Everyone, say it together now: "There is no Ray Peat diet". Wow, that was so easy. And how about this one: "Perceive, think, act". Wow, so easy again. Sounds like those are the only things that Ray signed off on so whatever you are coming up with as a "diet" has nothing to do with Ray Peat even though you think it does. That means that you also cannot counter a "Ray Peat diet" and claim that "the diet" wrecking your liver. Js.

 

[Nick]

Everyone, say it together now: "There is no Ray Peat diet". Wow, that was so easy. And how about this one: "Perceive, think, act". Wow, so easy again. Sounds like those are the only things that Ray signed off on so whatever you are coming up with as a "diet" has nothing to do with Ray Peat even though you think it does. That means that you also cannot counter a "Ray Peat diet" and claim that "the diet" wrecking your liver. Js.

He recommended that people try 2 quarts of milk and 1 quart of orange juice daily over and over in various interviews and radio shows as well as email replies, it easily could have been hundreds of times just in the portion of his output that I have read and listened to. Would he have said that people continue with it if they perceived problems? I don't think so. But the idea that Ray never recommended any kind of diet seems like gaslighting to me.

 

[honey]

He recommended that people try 2 quarts of milk and 1 quart of orange juice daily over and over in various interviews and radio shows as well as email replies, it easily could have been hundreds of times just in the portion of his output that I have read and listened to. Would he have said that people continue with it if they perceived problems? I don't think so. But the idea that Ray never recommended any kind of diet seems like gaslighting to me.

You're talking about the "quick therapy diet" he talks about. That's not a long-term diet, nor something that is recommended to everyone, and certainly not "The Ray Peat Diet". He talked about what foods, "diet" if you want to call it that, people should lean towards with their meal consumption but not some dogmatic "thou shall not eat ____" (except for larger amounts of PUFA) mentality that is so popular among people because they can't think for themselves. The word "diet" is loosely defined online and most of the time people aren't even talking about the same thing. If you want to call that gaslighting, more power to you.

 

[Dolomite]

Everyone, say it together now: "There is no Ray Peat diet". Wow, that was so easy. And how about this one: "Perceive, think, act". Wow, so easy again. Sounds like those are the only things that Ray signed off on so whatever you are coming up with as a "diet" has nothing to do with Ray Peat even though you think it does. That means that you also cannot counter a "Ray Peat diet" and claim that "the diet" wrecking your liver. Js.

He recommended that people try 2 quarts of milk and 1 quart of orange juice daily over and over in various interviews and radio shows as well as email replies, it easily could have been hundreds of times just in the portion of his output that I have read and listened to. Would he have said that people continue with it if they perceived problems? I don't think so. But the idea that Ray never recommended any kind of diet seems like gaslighting to me.

Nick is right that Ray made recommendations to drink 1/2 gallon of milk and a quart of OJ daily. He said to drink low fat milk if you were having trouble with weight. He recommended cottage cheese over hard cheese. He said to avoid all PUFA and to have an oyster and some liver weekly. He didn't recommend supplements except thyroid and maybe progesterone. He recommended drinking the water vegetables were cooked in, but not the vegetables themselves. He said the water potatoes were cooked in after shredding them was high in protein and good to drink. He said to avoid starch because it might possible cross the intestinal barrier and get lodged in capillaries or the brain. He said to use gelatinous broth to add glycine to meals with muscle meat. He recommended juice over actual fruit because he wasn't in favor of the fiber that would feed gut bacteria. As for the carrot salad he said not to overly chew the carrots because the shredded carrot would sweep estrogen from the intestines. It is possible this lower fiber diet with very little to chew was good for him if in fact his teeth were poor.

There are many people on here who say there isn't a Ray Peat diet. And many of them eat something entirely different from Peat's recommendations but add in some milk and OJ but not in the quantities recommended.

You're talking about the "quick therapy diet" he talks about. That's not a long-term diet, nor something that is recommended to everyone, and certainly not "The Ray Peat Diet". He talked about what foods, "diet" if you want to call it that, people should lean towards with their meal consumption but not some dogmatic "thou shall not eat ____" (except for larger amounts of PUFA) mentality that is so popular among people because they can't think for themselves. The word "diet" is loosely defined online and most of the time people aren't even talking about the same thing. If you want to call that gaslighting, more power to you.

I never heard him say this was a quick therapy diet. He did make personal recommendations to some people and I remember a girl he recommended eat starch and cooked vegetables.

 

[InChristAlone]

You're talking about the "quick therapy diet" he talks about. That's not a long-term diet, nor something that is recommended to everyone, and certainly not "The Ray Peat Diet". He talked about what foods, "diet" if you want to call it that, people should lean towards with their meal consumption but not some dogmatic "thou shall not eat ____" (except for larger amounts of PUFA) mentality that is so popular among people because they can't think for themselves. The word "diet" is loosely defined online and most of the time people aren't even talking about the same thing. If you want to call that gaslighting, more power to you.

How long have you been following Ray? You are pretty new to the forum. I've been here since the beginning and I don't agree with anything you just said.