Salt and Swelling

[Peatness]

In this recent Patrick Timpone radio interview Dr. Peat was asked a question by a listener . The question was related to salt causing swelling to the thumb/finger and arthritis. Dr Peat replied that he had not heard of this. I too have experienced worsening joint pain and swelling when increasing salt – one teaspoon per day. Not a lot of salt by Peat standards. Does anyone know what going on with this? My calcium and vitamin D are both good.

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[Riesensackteil]

Test your aldosterone and markers for angiotensin

 

[ecstatichamster]

I read that. I will advocate for a bit of borax, not a Peat thing but I recall Travis and I discussing it and have found it is very helpful for people. I think 15mg or so of borax can lower this type of swelling which I think is caused by fungus in the joints. That was Travis' theory and I've found that most people have good experience using borax for this.

I don't know why the salt triggers the fungus, if that is what is happening, but it seems plausible to me.

 

[Peatness]

Test your aldosterone and markers for angiotensin

These were normal when I last had them checked. I take telmisartan for BP

 

[Peatness]

I read that. I will advocate for a bit of borax, not a Peat thing but I recall Travis and I discussing it and have found it is very helpful for people. I think 15mg or so of borax can lower this type of swelling which I think is caused by fungus in the joints. That was Travis' theory and I've found that most people have good experience using borax for this.

I don't know why the salt triggers the fungus, if that is what is happening, but it seems plausible to me.

Thanks. Is this the same as Boron? (I have a bottle of this at home but haven't been using it)

 

[TheCalciumCad]

I too have experienced worsening joint pain and swelling when increasing salt – one teaspoon per day. Not a lot of salt by Peat standards. Does anyone know what going on with this? My calcium and vitamin D are both good.

What salt are you using tho? He mentions not using iodized salt as it can be anti-thyroid which is prob most salts outside of kosher/pickling salts.

 

[Peatness]

What salt are you using tho? He mentions not using iodized salt as it can be anti-thyroid which is prob most salts outside of kosher/pickling salts.

I used either sea salt or the diamond crystals kosher salt

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks. Is this the same as Boron? (I have a bottle of this at home but haven't been using it)

It is a boron salt.

 

[StephanF]

I posted about this before, I think:

When I visited my mom back in 2012 in Germany, I noticed that her caretaker, a woman in her sixties, had swollen finger knuckles, which I didn’t notice the year before. So I asked her and she showed me that her pointing and middle finger of her right hand were stiff. This poor woman was working with only three fingers of her right hand in the kitchen! I offered to try MMS (chlorine dioxide) from my travel kit and she did. After five days, we came back from a trip to relatives and I came to the kitchen and asked the caretaker who her swelling in her hands were. Without saying a word but with a bright smile on her face, she lifted her hands up and made repeated fists with both hands! No more stiff fingers! In only five days!

Of course, this only works with early onset of arthritis. I think it comes from bacteria, from infected gums or root canal treated teeth, where bacteria can easily enter the blood stream. This also can cause heart disease, of course. There Zeta Aid helps, too.

 

[ThinPicking]

I can also get some join pain if I'm not well hydrated prior and don't allow 30 minutes - 1 hour (the longer the better) for a salty meal to sit in my stomach with only a small amount of fluid consumed at the same time. I think something's happening to Na+ and Cl- ions during digestion but I couldn't tell you what. Maybe the acidity is buffered with bicarbonate before arrival to the small intestine.

 

[Peatness]

Some Ray Peat quotes on salt - I still don't understand what salting to taste means

“A diet low in sodium and protein probably kills many more people than has been documented. If old age is commonly a hypovolemic condition, then the common salt restriction for old-age hypertension is just as irrational as is salt-restriction in pregnancy or in shock. Thyroid (T 3), glucose, sodium, magnesium and protein should be considered in any state in which weakened homeostatic control of the composition of plasma is evident.”

“Thyroid, progesterone, protein, and salt are powerful defenses against all sorts of stress associated symptoms, including hot flashes, insomnia, cramps, PMS, edema, toxemia of pregnancy, low-birth-weight babies, epilepsy, heart diseases, hypertension, strokes, migraine, inflammatory diseases hypoglycemia, fatigue and depression. The first approach to an appropriate diet would be to use at least a quart of milk and a quart of orange juice daily, well salted chicken broth, and frequent snacks, especially salty foods.”

“Tom Brewer demonstrated the importance of eating enough salt during pregnancy, to maintain adequate blood volume. When salt is restricted during pregnancy, the inadequate blood volume doesn’t carry enough oxygen and food to the uterus to allow full development of the baby, and the kidneys secrete a hormone to increase the circulation, creating a tendency toward high blood pressure. Following Brewer’s research, I saw that extra sodium should help in other situations involving circulatory inefficiency. Premenstrual edema, insomnia, and even high blood pressure often respond very well to a little extra sodium in the diet. One of the most important effects of sodium is that it tends to spare magnesium. which is likely to be lost during stress and hypothyroidism. If we eat salty foods when we crave them, we are able to retain our magnesium more easily. Sodium also helps to regulate blood sugar, for example by improving its absorption from the intestine. There is even evidence that sodium can spare protein, since, if there isn’t enough sodium to excrete into the urine to balance acids, the kidneys will waste protein to produce ammonium as an ionic substitute for sodium. But I think the most important point to remember is that it is essential for mainting adequate blood volume, and that it is almost always unphysiological and irrational to restrict sodium intake, because reduced blood volume tends to reduce the delivery of oxygen and nutrients to all tissues, leading to many problems. The emotional tension many people feel when they crave salt is, in some cases, the result of increased adrenaIin, reflecting a real biological problem.”

“Even before aldosterone was identified, progesterone’s role in regulating the salts, water, and energy metabolism was known, and after the functions of aldosterone were identified, progesterone was found to protect against its harmful effects, as it protects against an excess of cortisol, estrogen, or the androgens. New anti-aldosterone drugs are available that are effective for treating hypertension and heart failure, and their similarity to progesterone is recognized.”

“The increase of adrenalin, caused by a deficiency of sodium, is one ofthe factors that can
increase blood pressure; if the tissues’s glycogen stores are depleted, the adreoaJin will mobilize free fatty acids from the tissues, which tends to inhibit energy production from glucose, and to increase leakiness. After I had read Tom Brewer’s work on preventing or curing preeclampsia with added salt I realized that the premenstrual syndrome involved some of the features of preeclampsia (edema, insomnia, cramps, hypertension, salt craving), so I suggested to a friend that she might try salting her food to taste, instead of trying to restrict salt to “prevent edema.” She immediately noticed that it prevented her monthly edema problem. For several years, all the women who tried it had similarly good results, and often mentioned that their sleep improved. I mentioned this to several people with sleep problems, and regardless of age, their sleep improved when they ate as much salt as they wanted. Around that time, several studies had shown that salt restriction increases adrenalin, and one study showed that most old people on a low sodium diet suffered from insomnia, and had unusually high adrenalin. When they ate a normal amount of salt their adrenalin was normalized,and they slept better.”

Because of beliefs about cell physiology, most medical publications have argued for sodium
restriction in those situations, but the evidence is clear that inadequate salt retention is usually their outstanding pathological feature.


Progesterone has been an effective treatment in all of those conditions, and it increases the ability of the kidneys to retain sodium.”


“Instead of considering the significance of sodium’s effects on albumin, aldosterone. and
VEGF, textbooks have often talked about the factors that “pump” sodium, and factors that specifically regulate the movement of water. Experiments in which an excess of aldosterone is combined with a high salt intake produce increased blood pressure, and-by invoking various genes-salt is said to cause hypertension in certain people. This reasoning is hardly different from the reasoning of the drug companies in the 19505 who said that since women with toxemia have hypertension and edema, they should be treated with a diuretic and a low saIt diet, to eliminate water and to reduce blood pressure.”

 

[ThinPicking]

Some Ray Peat quotes on salt - I still don't understand what salting to taste means

My own interpretation has been to salt up to the point where you're aware salt's been added and no further. For me that's usually around 4 turns of my salt grinder over whichever meal I'm eating, probably as arbitrary as it sounds.

So that's salting to taste. If I salt above taste my appetite for the stuff can rise quickly over a few days, my taste generally becomes blunted and my preference for fluids goes down. The stuff can be addictive/reinforcing in this sense.

 

[Lord Cola]

Some Ray Peat quotes on salt - I still don't understand what salting to taste means

I think you would need to get accustomed to the taste of salt first before trying to salt to taste. The taste of salt can be repulsive if you're not used to eating lots of it. It also happens to taste quite unpleasant with milk or orange juice unless you add other things to them.

Isn't swelling a common side effect of eating lots of salt? It's strange that Peat doesn't address this relationship more. I've noticed he does this with other things like negative effects of Vitamin D as well.

 

[Peatness]

I think you would need to get accustomed to the taste of salt first before trying to salt to taste. The taste of salt can be repulsive if you're not used to eating lots of it. It also happens to taste quite unpleasant with milk or orange juice unless you add other things to them.

Isn't swelling a common side effect of eating lots of salt? It's strange that Peat doesn't address this relationship more. I've noticed he does this with other things like negative effects of Vitamin D as well.

I add salt to my morning latte - delicious
I rarely get more than a teaspoon of salt in a day and I swell. I think pufa might have something to do with my reaction to salt.
When I do a fasting blood test my serum sodium comes out low - interesting.
Tissue bound sodium (even when serum levels normal) might be an issue - Ray rarely mentions this

 

[ThinPicking]

I think pufa might have something to do with my reaction to salt.

For others struggling with fluid balance please be advised, it's not that complicated.

Eat something salty, wait an hour, drink some water.

 

[Peatness]

For others struggling with fluid balance please be advised, it's not that complicated.

Eat something salty, wait an hour, drink some water.

Difficult on a Peaty diet

 

[Lord Cola]

I add salt to my morning latte - delicious
I rarely get more than a teaspoon of salt in a day and I swell. I think pufa might have something to do with my reaction to salt.
When I do a fasting blood test my serum sodium comes out low - interesting.
Tissue bound sodium (even when serum levels normal) might be an issue - Ray rarely mentions this

I recently started experiencing swelling as well, despite salt intake being consistent, and this follows months of avoiding eating beef liver just because it tastes bad, gradually worsening digestion, dry skin, etc. I think this swelling may be a result of increased estrogen, and cells not having enough energy to control water properly.

 

[Peatness]

For others struggling with fluid balance please be advised, it's not that complicated.

Eat something salty, wait an hour, drink some water.

Hardly possible on a peating diet of milk and orange juice

I recently started experiencing swelling as well, despite salt intake being consistent, and this follows months of avoiding eating beef liver just because it tastes bad, gradually worsening digestion, dry skin, etc. I think this swelling may be a result of increased estrogen, and cells not having enough energy to control water properly.

Yes, estrogen is an issue.

 

[Riesensackteil]

Hardly possible on a peating diet of milk and orange juice

There are fat reduced pork rinds in some stores

 

[Peatness]

There are fat reduced pork rinds in some stores

Post a link please