Anyone experimenting with high carb, low protein, as Peat was doing during 2022?

[windinthepines]

Anyone experimenting with high carb, low protein, as Peat was doing during 2022?

He talks about it in an interview with Timpone (Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Your Health Questions Answered - March 23, 2022 | One Radio Network) and in an interview with Roddy and Haidut.

Anyone else experimenting with this? What have your results been like? I'm curious to try it.

 

[Jackson Chung]

I don't know my grandparents at all.

So take it for what it is.

They grew up in a vegetarian society (NEVER ate meat and rarely if ever ate eggs).

They were farmers and grew up poor. They owned their land. Grandpa was 96, Grandma was 88 on Mom's side. On Dad's side Grandma is 84 and alive. Grandpa died when my Dad was young.

Their diet was basically carbs and milk (they had cows). Everything was fresh (eaten within a day of picking). They lived in India and had tons of sunlight and lots of friends and children. They cooked their vegetables before eating and did not eat anything raw (or rarely).

Never went to a doctor until old age.

I hear similar stories from other families in my community. However the younger generation isn't doing as well. Lots of PUFA now in the diet.

 

[Jessie]

Anyone experimenting with high carb, low protein, as Peat was doing during 2022?

He talks about it in an interview with Timpone (Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Your Health Questions Answered - March 23, 2022 | One Radio Network) and in an interview with Roddy and Haidut.

Anyone else experimenting with this? What have your results been like? I'm curious to try it.

I went through a brief phase of low protein. No more than 75 grams a day. A while back I got really obsessed with limiting gluconeogenesis as much as possible, and one way to do that is to limit protein consumption. That way none of it is wasted into sugar conversion.

This will also limit CRH, ACTH, cortisol, lipolysis, and ammonia to a great degree. So I think there's definitely applications to this approach, like for people with kidney disease or hypertension. But for the average person not so much.

I always felt light on the approach, like I was never full (I was also limiting fat intake to 10% of calories, sometimes less). So the difficulty of maintaining the diet is really the challenging part. Other than that I felt okay.

My main diet isn't really THAT high in protein anyways, about twice as much. 150 grams of protein is still moderate at best, kinda low still in most circles. Yet I can maintain that with no problems of feeling hungry. I guess just go as low as you can while still being comfortable.

Because if you push yourself to the point where you feel like eating all the time, I doubt you'd be able to sustain it.

 

[h.c.]

Anyone experimenting with high carb, low protein, as Peat was doing during 2022?

I do it since years. Starchy things for energy, lots of vegetables, lots of stuff sprouted, 50% raw, not much fat (<20%, at beginning 10-15%) and if, only in whole food or coconut. I avoid oxidized PUFA and linolic acid. Somtimes Egg and Beef is o.k. for a treat - but its really not much. Legumes for a minimum of base protein and some aminos - but carefully selected, no bcaa.

Works for me.

 

[yerrag]

Ray going low protein,.while true, isn't surprising as the need for protein is much less at an older age. He just said so though without really giving context to it, and Pat skipped a beat not asking enough about why.

But I know with raising koi that when a koi reaches about four years old, its food has to be changed to be of lower protein. It would likely be the same reasons for humans except for koi converting protein to ammonia with higher protein intake and making the toxic burden on the water higher. There is no more need to build structure, as the structure is already in place, and the needs of growing vs the needs of maintaining are different.

I eat a typical Asian diet. My build is that of a typical Asian. Not unlike that of Bruce Lee without the bulging sinews. I eat a lot of rice, and the meat is kind of like for flavor, and I've never bothered to measure them. But it's likely to be considered low protein. Eating a large piece of steak with a tiny piece of potato is a treat, but even when I can have it for free, I would soon get tired of it.

I've seen my koi develop and grow well and live longer without giving them high protein fish food even when they're in their growth spurt. What I find more important is making sure the water is clean, not high in bacteria nor nitrogenous compounds that are toxic to them, and good aeration.

Not sure if that applies to me, but I think that ignition didn't apply to me, it would be that I would not be as tall as I could be, or as muscular as I could be. But I could be wrong, as I am a strong believer of balance and if the balance is there, growth and development and health won't be far behind.

 

[h.c.]

I've seen my koi develop and grow well and live longer without giving them high protein fish food even when they're in their growth spurt. What I find more important is making sure the water is clean, not high in bacteria nor nitrogenous compounds that are toxic to them, and good aeration.

Thank you for your insights regarding your koi! I think those "mass" insights are better and more correct then ones self-awareness.

Matches my research concerning the Okinawa-Diet (G-Translate link): Okinawa-Ernährung: 85% Kohlenhydrate, 9% Protein, 6% Fett - und was zu Paleo & Low-Carb - H.C.'s Blog

Carbs 85%, Aminos 9%, Fat 6%. Basically no chance of PUFA. Most important: Sweet potatoes instead of rice.

Best,
Hans

 

[shanny]

Their diet was basically carbs and milk (they had cows). Everything was fresh (eaten within a day of picking). They lived in India and had tons of sunlight and lots of friends and children. They cooked their vegetables before eating and did not eat anything raw (or rarely).

This is pretty much how I have been eating for some time, and I feel best this way. Much like @yerrag, I eat a very Asian style diet. Rice, rice noodles, all veggies are cooked, minimal fruit, very well cooked starches, sweet potatoes and raw goat's milk or yogurt made with the milk. I will occasionally have an egg or two, some fish or some cheese, but these are more like condiments for me.

I was inspired by the work of former user Tyw and his thread on endotoxin. The more meat and fat I eat, the more symptoms of endotoxin I get. Peat relates most problems to increased endotoxin, so for me, this kind of diet seems to reduce that. It has also been true for my dog who I did write a thread about. He started having seizures, and a diet of starches, fruit, egg yolks, gelatin and raw milk have improved his health significantly. It seems that much like the koi fish, once he was full grown his needs for protein all but diminished!

 

[Limon9]

I often have around 80% carbohydrate, then 10% and 10%. Sometimes I'll have more fat, up to 15%.

Ray going low protein,.while true, isn't surprising as the need for protein is much less at an older age. He just said so though without really giving context to it, and Pat skipped a beat not asking enough about why.

. . .

I've seen my koi develop and grow well and live longer without giving them high protein fish food even when they're in their growth spurt. What I find more important is making sure the water is clean, not high in bacteria nor nitrogenous compounds that are toxic to them, and good aeration.

. . .

Matches my research concerning the Okinawa-Diet (G-Translate link): Okinawa-Ernährung: 85% Kohlenhydrate, 9% Protein, 6% Fett - und was zu Paleo & Low-Carb - H.C.'s Blog

Carbs 85%, Aminos 9%, Fat 6%. Basically no chance of PUFA. Most important: Sweet potatoes instead of rice.

In his 2022 Q2 newsletter, Dr. Peat cited a paper by Samantha Solon-Biet, who fed ~a dozen groups of mice with varying macronutrient ratios and energy-densities ("bulk" was added as cellulose), finding that a low protein:carbohydrate ratio was important for their longevity and long-term metabolic health. Interestingly, they were fed these diets from birth. Despite her work on the "Okinawan Diet", who ate a 1:10 ratio of these and were also ~20% calorie-restricted relative to the mainland dietary intake, she found that caloric intake wasn't too important for the mice.

 

[h.c.]

In his 2022 Q2 newsletter, Dr. Peat cited a paper by Samantha Solon-Biet, who fed ~a dozen groups of mice with varying macronutrient ratios and energy-densities ("bulk" was added as cellulose), finding that a low protein:carbohydrate ratio was important for their longevity and long-term metabolic health.

This Paper? Dietary Protein to Carbohydrate Ratio and Caloric Restriction: Comparing Metabolic Outcomes in Mice: https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/pdf/S2211-1247(15)00505-7.pdf?code=cell-site

 

[Limon9]

This Paper? Dietary Protein to Carbohydrate Ratio and Caloric Restriction: Comparing Metabolic Outcomes in Mice: https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/pdf/S2211-1247(15)00505-7.pdf?code=cell-site

Very similar. It was "Macronutrients and caloric intake in health and longevity" he cited, but I quickly found "The ratio of macronutrients, not caloric intake, dictates cardiometabolic health, aging, and longevity in ad libitum-fed mice" in its references.

 

[h.c.]

Very similar. It was "Macronutrients and caloric intake in health and longevity" he cited, but I quickly found "The ratio of macronutrients, not caloric intake, dictates cardiometabolic health, aging, and longevity in ad libitum-fed mice" in its references.

Wow! Thanks. Lots of intruiging stuff to process.

BCAAs activate mTOR - my hunch not to supplement them was right.

Best,
hans

 

[singuluscorpora]

I do - I’m jokingly describing my way of eating to relatives & friends with “I’m like (raw) fruitarian but I eat liver/pate and bone broth ”.

In the past couple of months I’ve almost eliminated a previous staple - skyr and low fat cottage cheese (1000-2000 gr per day), not provoked by anything but rather as an experiment. Now I make homemade frozen yougurt with skyr 1-2 times a week at most and that’s it for my ‘explicit’ protein.

To recap - lots of fruits, sweet and regular potatoes, squash … and a bit of pate/liver. I’m doing bodyweight stuff and the very low protein doesn’t seem to affect me - I’m progressing, so that’s good.

 

[canadianboymike]

Anyone experimenting with high carb, low protein, as Peat was doing during 2022?

He talks about it in an interview with Timpone (Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Your Health Questions Answered - March 23, 2022 | One Radio Network) and in an interview with Roddy and Haidut.

Anyone else experimenting with this? What have your results been like? I'm curious to try it.

I did it for a couple months this past summer.

My results were mixed. I felt quite energetic all day. Even if I had a bad sleep which would normally mess up the rest of my day, my energy was outstanding.

My mood was quite good as well. Carbs are calming and energizing so that was great.

The issue I was having was my cravings were too much. I hit my sugar quota which I can feel sometimes In my mouth. Just a feeling of having enough. So I really wanted some meat and fat but refrained which I’m sure isn’t the best if I’m really craving it.

My body composition suffered slightly but I also quit doing traditional exercise at the same time so that may have played a role.

I enjoy higher carb but find having a good amount of the other macros makes me feel a bit more balanced and not obsessed about food.

 

[mamakitty]

I’m currently experimenting with this. Started maybe a couple months ago, albeit on and off. Anyway, I personally feel very sickly, weak, fatigued and dizzy if I don’t eat meat or at least eggs. My protein intake varies from 19-24% these days. I have always been a very big meat eater my whole life, my parents used to call me a carnivore when I was a kid. I had to make a conscious and forced effort to lower my meat intake a year and a half ago. It’s very difficult for me, like really difficult because I love meat and can eat a pound plus without noticing in one sitting. Anyway, I don’t see any effects, positive or negative, from lowering my protein intake. However, if I don’t eat meat or eggs, I feel so disgusting and no amount of cheese and milk alleviates it.

 

[youngsinatra]

I’m currently experimenting with this. Started maybe a couple months ago, albeit on and off. Anyway, I personally feel very sickly, weak, fatigued and dizzy if I don’t eat meat or at least eggs. My protein intake varies from 19-24% these days. I have always been a very big meat eater my whole life, my parents used to call me a carnivore when I was a kid. I had to make a conscious and forced effort to lower my meat intake a year and a half ago. It’s very difficult for me, like really difficult because I love meat and can eat a pound plus without noticing in one sitting. Anyway, I don’t see any effects, positive or negative, from lowering my protein intake. However, if I don’t eat meat or eggs, I feel so disgusting and no amount of cheese and milk alleviates it.

Do what works best for you. :)

 

[mamakitty]

Do what works best for you. :)

I guess, eh

 

[LadyRae]

I have been restricting methionine for about four or five months now. In the morning I will have some sort of organ meats along with a couple eggs, from my own hens fed kitchen scraps, organic non-GMO chicken feed crumble, and organ meats. For the rest of the day it is fresh fruits and I also make Jello out of fruit and beef gelatin and I like to put coconut Cool whip on top.

The biggest thing I've noticed is that I've lost a little bit of weight and I don't get puffy in my legs towards the end of the day. I also like eating a lot of meat but when I do I must get higher ammonia or lactic acid levels. I sleep better and longer at night also

 

[Jennifer]

Anyone experimenting with high carb, low protein, as Peat was doing during 2022?

He talks about it in an interview with Timpone (Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Your Health Questions Answered - March 23, 2022 | One Radio Network) and in an interview with Roddy and Haidut.

Anyone else experimenting with this? What have your results been like? I'm curious to try it.

Not currently, but I followed a high-carb, low-protein diet for a total of about 20 years. It didn’t end well, especially when I went fruitarian—I was averaging 50–60 g of protein a day. Despite being a small, sedentary female and consuming over 3000 calories a day, I was always ravenous. Once I reintroduced animal protein (and fat), doubling my protein intake, I finally felt satiated, and I gained back muscle I hadn’t realized had atrophied while following the diet. I lost inches all over, especially in my waist and I also increased my bone density, substantially.

I’m currently experimenting with this. Started maybe a couple months ago, albeit on and off. Anyway, I personally feel very sickly, weak, fatigued and dizzy if I don’t eat meat or at least eggs. My protein intake varies from 19-24% these days. I have always been a very big meat eater my whole life, my parents used to call me a carnivore when I was a kid. I had to make a conscious and forced effort to lower my meat intake a year and a half ago. It’s very difficult for me, like really difficult because I love meat and can eat a pound plus without noticing in one sitting. Anyway, I don’t see any effects, positive or negative, from lowering my protein intake. However, if I don’t eat meat or eggs, I feel so disgusting and no amount of cheese and milk alleviates it.

My grandmother was similar. Her favorite meats were processed, go figure. She lived to be 96 and the only reason why she died is because she wanted to be with my grandfather in heaven so she refused to eat or drink anything. We have quite a few 100+ year olds just in my small town alone, and I don’t know a single one who doesn’t consume meat. My grandmother’s roommate had her 100th birthday when my grandmother passed away. She loves hotdogs. lol

 

[mamakitty]

My grandmother was similar. Her favorite meats were processed, go figure. She lived to be 96 and the only reason why she died is because she wanted to be with my grandfather in heaven so she refused to eat or drink anything. We have quite a few 100+ year olds just in my small town alone, and I don’t know a single one who doesn’t consume meat. My grandmother’s roommate had her 100th birthday when my grandmother passed away. She loves hotdogs. lol

Oh that bit about your grandma wanting to be with your grandpa touched my heartstrings too much, teared up a bit. It’s beautiful!
I also like hotdogs but I almost never eat them because of all the fear mongering over processed meat. There’s so much data on supposed longevity diets but it’s all conflicting. Looks to me some people just live long regardless of what they eat. I think removing or limiting any macro is terrible if it makes one feel bad. Everyone’s needs are different, I have always loved meat and marrow that other children didn’t eat. I didn’t care for candies much, just wanted grilled chicken and steak lol. I still laugh internally when we are dining out and the server always gives the huge steak I ordered to one of the men on our table lol. I have reduced my meat intake recently but I cannot not eat meat because it makes me feel so so bad. I also have to say starch makes me feel amazing too. So, both meat and starch that many a members here are against, in my experience give me life. I dunno maybe I am doing the wrong thing, but why does it feel so good and doing the ostensible right thing make me feel so miserable!?

 

[shanny]

both meat and starch that many a members here are against, in my experience give me life.

I think our intuition tells us what we need more than what other people "think" is best. If these things make you feel good, then eat em up! The joy and nourishment you get from eating food you like far outweighs a perfect diet. Eat some hot dogs!!

I also agree, starch is amazing. Fruit makes me hungry and makes my teeth hurt, so I prefer starch too.