No Libido/hypogonadism Need Help Please

icecreamlover said:

reversal of hypogonadism with clomid is well documented and consistent

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Joocy_J said:

post 104223

Miggie said:

Joocy_J said:

post 104218

Miggie said:

post 104217

Joocy_J said:

post 104212

Miggie said:

post 104211

Joocy_J said:

Ami said:

If your main concern is libido then try Proviron. Unlike TRT, Proviron will not shut down your HPTA.

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I have heard mixed things about that. Some say it will, other say it will not.

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For me proviron didn't do a thing if anything it just made my acne worse lol.

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What else have you tried?

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Well I'm on roids as well and even testosterone can't give me libido. I have been doing an "estrogen" detox for a long while now and libido only seems to get worse on it.

But sofar I have tried progesterone cream ( which made everything worse, made my chest sag and got some heavy acne on my back from it).
Proviron, which didn't do anything for me.
Caber I tried that for a few weeks and only noticed a little improvement.

Edit: I also tried every aromatase inhibitor that is on the market and I didn't get any benefit from it at all, the only side effect i got from it was that my joints became a bit stiffer but that's it.

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Do you blast and cruise? What was your libido like before roids? thanks

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Yes I blast and cruise and before steroids my libido was pretty high. I started a first cycle at age 20 and then cycled off. I have been blasting and cruising since I was 21. I tried a lot of compounds and could always maintain a libido as long as test was in. Once I started believing into the estrogen dominance thing I supplemented with a lot of zinc and other anti estrogenic herbs/vitamins but then my libido started dropping and dropping. Now I'm at a point where I don't care for sex but I can still get a good erection. I'm guessing I have progesterone toxicity. My temps are always high especially after a meal and my heart rate is in the 90s as well in rest.

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Interesting, I think we have a similar issue as I can get an erection but have no libido. Although, I have never done steroids. What is progesterone toxicity? Like what are the symptoms?

My pulse and temps are also good.

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Joocy_J said:

post 104026

tara said:

I don't know exactly what happened to you during this time. But one thing that I think can happen, is that people push their metabolism up with supplements, but the body realises it isn't currently up to sustaining the higher metabolism at this time, for whatever reason, so it applies some countermeasures to bring it back down a bit. Switching to NDT presumably increased T3 for a bit. Maybe your system down-regulated somehow to counteract this. Again, I don't know this, it's just a speculation.

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I mean I was on three grains of NDT and switched to a lower dose of synthetic and my libido came back overnight. So there was less t3 in my body. But, this libido only lasted a week and than disappeared despite the same dose of thyroid being taken.

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Joocy_J said:

post 104208 Maybe I am not communicating clearly, but I know for a fact that I lost my libido due to chronic stress, as opposed to under-eating. Without going into too much detail the stress going on in my life from March to June was extreme to say the least, and had a clear beginning and end. It is obvious to me that when this stress started my libido disappeared.

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Miggie said:

I read about progesterone toxicity on curezone buy some guy with a fish avatar lol. The symptoms are very similar to estrogen dominance because both are anti androgens in a sense. What I noticed from the progesterone toxicity is low libido, lazy and no motivation because i'm basically immune to stress. When i was supplementing with progesterone I got a sagging chest and my penis turtled back up. I think there are more people here that report the same symptoms if they use a too high dose of progest-e. I think the main difference between estrogen and prog dominance is that estrogen works like cocaine like ray peat himself says so it stimulates the brain so it could actually enhance libido and could give a boost to energy even though its done by increasing cortisol.

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Joocy_J said:

post 104276

Miggie said:

I read about progesterone toxicity on curezone buy some guy with a fish avatar lol. The symptoms are very similar to estrogen dominance because both are anti androgens in a sense. What I noticed from the progesterone toxicity is low libido, lazy and no motivation because i'm basically immune to stress. When i was supplementing with progesterone I got a sagging chest and my penis turtled back up. I think there are more people here that report the same symptoms if they use a too high dose of progest-e. I think the main difference between estrogen and prog dominance is that estrogen works like cocaine like ray peat himself says so it stimulates the brain so it could actually enhance libido and could give a boost to energy even though its done by increasing cortisol.

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That is exactly what I feel like! No motivation because I am so comfortable. I failed a test for my major a week ago and it didn't stress me out at all. I have never used progesterone though, only pregnenolone.

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Miggie said:

Joocy_J said:

post 104276

Miggie said:

I read about progesterone toxicity on curezone buy some guy with a fish avatar lol. The symptoms are very similar to estrogen dominance because both are anti androgens in a sense. What I noticed from the progesterone toxicity is low libido, lazy and no motivation because i'm basically immune to stress. When i was supplementing with progesterone I got a sagging chest and my penis turtled back up. I think there are more people here that report the same symptoms if they use a too high dose of progest-e. I think the main difference between estrogen and prog dominance is that estrogen works like cocaine like ray peat himself says so it stimulates the brain so it could actually enhance libido and could give a boost to energy even though its done by increasing cortisol.

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That is exactly what I feel like! No motivation because I am so comfortable. I failed a test for my major a week ago and it didn't stress me out at all. I have never used progesterone though, only pregnenolone.

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Did it start to happen when you took pregnenolone? A friend of mine took a small dose and he crashed straight away and lost his energy levels. His libido was weak but then absolutely destroyed.

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NathanK said:

post 104225

icecreamlover said:

reversal of hypogonadism with clomid is well documented and consistent

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Please show sources. This is not well documented or consistent from anything I have seen. I personally experience sky high PSA levels associated with an inflamed prostate of an 80 year old. I imagine it was from excessive DHT caused by clomid. It also raised my estrogen to 55 in my 3 month experiment. The only way I fixed my low testosterone was by fixing my metabolism and steroid conversion.

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icecreamlover said:

post 104356

NathanK said:

post 104225

icecreamlover said:

reversal of hypogonadism with clomid is well documented and consistent

Click to expand...

Please show sources. This is not well documented or consistent from anything I have seen. I personally experience sky high PSA levels associated with an inflamed prostate of an 80 year old. I imagine it was from excessive DHT caused by clomid. It also raised my estrogen to 55 in my 3 month experiment. The only way I fixed my low testosterone was by fixing my metabolism and steroid conversion.

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I posted it earlier in the thread
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540

plus some more
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22044663
http://www.pccarx.com/what-is-compoundi ... pogonadism

You had a problem with excessive DHT ( never heard that complaint ) ? and aromatizing too much. Sounds like clomid did exactly what it is claimed/documented to do, increase LH from the pituitary and subsequent endogenous test production. A smaller dose likely would have yielded favorable results, and obviously if you're aromatizing at high rates that is a problem which can be addressed separately.

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NathanK said:

icecreamlover said:

post 104356

NathanK said:

post 104225

icecreamlover said:

reversal of hypogonadism with clomid is well documented and consistent

Click to expand...

Please show sources. This is not well documented or consistent from anything I have seen. I personally experience sky high PSA levels associated with an inflamed prostate of an 80 year old. I imagine it was from excessive DHT caused by clomid. It also raised my estrogen to 55 in my 3 month experiment. The only way I fixed my low testosterone was by fixing my metabolism and steroid conversion.

Click to expand...

I posted it earlier in the thread
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540

plus some more
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22044663
http://www.pccarx.com/what-is-compoundi ... pogonadism

You had a problem with excessive DHT ( never heard that complaint ) ? and aromatizing too much. Sounds like clomid did exactly what it is claimed/documented to do, increase LH from the pituitary and subsequent endogenous test production. A smaller dose likely would have yielded favorable results, and obviously if you're aromatizing at high rates that is a problem which can be addressed separately.

Click to expand...

I took the term "reversal" to mean "fix" and not long term management. In that case sure. It's about finding what works for each person. Personally, I'd be more impartial to HCG over Clomid because when I remember looking into it I thought I recall there being a lot more long-term sides with clomid than HCG. I think there was eye and possible toxicity issues, but I would have to look that up again. Thanks for posting the studies.

I've actually never had aromatization issues until clomid. I tried exogenous testosterone for 6 months and I didn't have any problems. Im sure dose was too high then even though when I took the test I had tailed off to 25mg EOD.

Ironically, I was talking to a few people today about the DHT-prostate thing (probably incited by this thread). Estrogen seems the likely culprit (as always) and not excessive DHT as you mentioned. This article I came across today was a legitimately informative piece: http://mikemahler.com/articles-videos/h ... -androgens

BTW, OP, I do want to emphasize though that I tried just about everything trying to figure out my body (and still am). I fixed just about all of my issues following Ray Peat and lots of the stuff on this forum. Don't give up hope. If you go down the hormone replacement/pharmaceutical path it could be a life-long, and expensive, commitment that you might not be able to reverse later. Just keep plugging away. Ultimately, after I tried some of these hormones, I don't personally think testosterone is worth as much of the hype that it gets in terms of relative health benefits. And I'm a pretty muscular former power lifter, FWIW.

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NathanK said:

I took the term "reversal" to mean "fix" and not long term management. In that case sure. It's about finding what works for each person. Personally, I'd be more impartial to HCG over Clomid because when I remember looking into it I thought I recall there being a lot more long-term sides with clomid than HCG. I think there was eye and possible toxicity issues, but I would have to look that up again. Thanks for posting the studies.

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Joocy_J said:

post 104545 I think that my libido is coming back from t3 only, I will report back if this continues.

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icecreamlover said:

reversal of hypogonadism with clomid is well documented and consistent

Click to expand...

NathanK said:

Please show sources. This is not well documented or consistent from anything I have seen. I personally experience sky high PSA levels associated with an inflamed prostate of an 80 year old. I imagine it was from excessive DHT caused by clomid. It also raised my estrogen to 55 in my 3 month experiment. The only way I fixed my low testosterone was by fixing my metabolism and steroid conversion.

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Koveras said:

Clomiphene citrate potentiates the adverse effects of estrogen on rat testis and down-regulates the expression of steroidogenic enzyme genes. - PubMed - NCBI

Azoospermia after treatment with clomiphene citrate in patients with oligospermia. - PubMed - NCBI

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Joocy_J said:

False alarm

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michael94 said:

I posted it earlier in the thread
Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism - PubMed

plus some more
Outcomes of clomiphene citrate treatment in young hypogonadal men - PubMed
http://www.pccarx.com/what-is-compoundi ... pogonadism

You had a problem with excessive DHT ( never heard that complaint ) ? and aromatizing too much. Sounds like clomid did exactly what it is claimed/documented to do, increase LH from the pituitary and subsequent endogenous test production. A smaller dose likely would have yielded favorable results, and obviously if you're aromatizing at high rates that is a problem which can be addressed separately.

Click to expand...