Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency: The "Great Imitator" Of Other Illnesses

[Tarmander]

Have you tried calcium chloride?

Yes but the amounts you need to take to get good calcium levels is massive.

 

[Sativa]

Calcium acetate contains only 25% calcium by weight, whereas calcium carbonate contains 40% calcium by weight.
...6g calcium carbonate/day, 0.4×6 = 2.4g Ca/day.
...6g calcium acetate/day, 0.25×6 = 1.5g Ca/day

 

[yerrag]

Yes but the amounts you need to take to get good calcium levels is massive.

And calcium chloride is an acidic load, especially when taken at large dosage. But @Amazoniac, I'm not getting the relevance of calcium chloride on a discussion on vitamin b1, nor to the Myers cocktail. Also, isn't the Myers cocktail for IV use? Is the cocktail you had broken down into constituents already adjusted for oral consumption?

 

[Tarmander]

And calcium chloride is an acidic load, especially when taken at large dosage. But @Amazoniac, I'm not getting the relevance of calcium chloride on a discussion on vitamin b1, nor to the Myers cocktail. Also, isn't the Myers cocktail for IV use? Is the cocktail you had broken down into constituents already adjusted for oral consumption?

Amazoniac knows I take a nice amount of Betaine HCL and he is often suggesting a different way to get chloride for me.

Yes Myer's cocktail is an IV...we were talking about b complexes and myers has one in it directly delivered into your vein verse oral consumption.

 

[Kray]

"In this video, Dr. Berg talks about vitamin B deficiency. Transketolase is the enzyme for vitamin B deficiency test. Enzymes are the things that do the work in the body and B1 is involved in 5 different enzymes. Vitamin B1 deficiency is called Beri Beri and known as a great mimicker of disease. He also talks about several reasons to why you become deficient in B1."

Charlie, toward the end of the video, he discourages use of synthetic B1 for basic needs due to its questionable manufacturing with substances like ammonia and coal tar. I've been checking out other links and looking on the forum for some backup of this concern but find none. I've been taking Thiamine HCL caps from PureBulk and hope it isn't as bad as that, especially if their source is China, as some here claim.

Assuming you are supplementing B1, what have you found to be a good source, and is switching to benfotamine or allithiamine a better choice if there is concern in the processing/origin issues?

I appreciate his suggestion of at least combining single Bs with food and/or B complex for synergy. I have non-fortified nutritional yeast, and it's what I'm using when I take my Bs, always with food in general, and even started applying liquid Bs on my skin with MgChloride.

 

[Sativa]

I have non-fortified nutritional yeast, and it's what I'm using when I take my Bs, always with food in general

btw - do you boil the yeast and only consume the liquid-extracted b-vits? Ray mentioned the yeast itself as having an estrogenic substance that isn't water soluble. Haidut has mentioned this somewhere too

 

[charlie]

Assuming you are supplementing B1, what have you found to be a good source, and is switching to benfotamine or allithiamine a better choice if there is concern in the processing/origin issues?

For regular Thiamine I use this one:
B1 Thiamine HCl Powder USP - 50 Grams

For Allithiamine I use this one but looking for a cleaner source:
https://www.amazon.com/Ecological-Formulas-Allithiamine-Vitamin-Capsule/dp/B001Y9WZ5O

And for Lipothiaine I use this one but again looking for a better source:
https://www.amazon.com/Cardiovascular-Research-Lipothiamine-White-Count/dp/B002GODI7U/

 

[Kray]

For regular Thiamine I use this one:
B1 Thiamine HCl Powder USP - 50 Grams

For Allithiamine I use this one but looking for a cleaner source:
https://www.amazon.com/Ecological-Formulas-Allithiamine-Vitamin-Capsule/dp/B001Y9WZ5O

And for Lipothiaine I use this one but again looking for a better source:
https://www.amazon.com/Cardiovascular-Research-Lipothiamine-White-Count/dp/B002GODI7U/

Why all 3?

 

[charlie]

Why all 3?

I am using the Allithiamine and Lipothiamine temporarily just in case I have a protein transport issue but plan on using Thiamine HCL solely in the near future. I prefer the thiamine hcl because it is cheaper and no excipients.

 

[Inaut]

How much thiamine hcl do you plan on dosing @charlie

 

[Kray]

I am using the Allithiamine and Lipothiamine temporarily just in case I have a protein transport issue but plan on using Thiamine HCL solely in the near future. I prefer the thiamine hcl because it is cheaper and no excipients.

I see. Are you basically going by how you feel on these 2 before switching back? Curious how one would know. Just visited Lonsdale's site and his article on TTFD. Interesting and amazing, per users' comments on helpfulness. Sounds like Dr. prefers Lipo version due to brain barrier function.

 

[charlie]

How much thiamine hcl do you plan on dosing @charlie

Around 50 to 100 milligrams a few times a day. After a while I hope to be able to back down to a couple hundred milligrams a day. Just gotta see how it goes.

 

[Kray]

Around 50 to 100 milligrams a few times a day. After a while I hope to be able to back down to a couple hundred milligrams a day. Just gotta see how it goes.

I assume you do mean 50-100mg HCL form, not Alli- or Lipo-? How much Lipo do you take, and is there a best time of day?

 

[charlie]

I assume you do mean 50-100mg HCL form, not Alli- or Lipo-? How much Lipo do you take, and is there a best time of day?

I have been mixing and matching right now, just kinda jumping around testing different levels of each. Like today, I am mostly doing Alli and Lipo and will prolly do this a couple days then go heavy on the HCL a few days. There has been discussion that tapering off towards the evening so sleep is not affected. Dr. Lonsdale feels a person should start out low and slow because "refeeding" syndrome can happen. Then work your way up. He says he has seen no toxicity problems with thiamine. He also says magnesium should be taken with it. He also says Thiamine does not deplete any of the other B's.

 

[Kray]

I have been mixing and matching right now, just kinda jumping around testing different levels of each. Like today, I am mostly doing Alli and Lipo and will prolly do this a couple days then go heavy on the HCL a few days. There has been discussion that tapering off towards the evening so sleep is not affected. Dr. Lonsdale feels a person should start out low and slow because "refeeding" syndrome can happen. Then work your way up. He says he has seen no toxicity problems with thiamine. He also says magnesium should be taken with it. He also says Thiamine does not deplete any of the other B's.

Thanks for clarifying. This is so interesting. I am really enjoying the various articles and Q&A on his website. Seems more than coincidence that thiamine was named B-1, given the exhaustive list of benefits as well not affecting other Bs when taken solo.

btw- he says this: Allithiamine (AL) and Lipothiamine (LI) are both TTFD. The only differences are: AL is powdered so the dose can be split:LI is an enteric coated tablet of 50 mg TTFD to pass it through stomach acid to get to the small intestine where thiamine is absorbed. Both are available from Ecological Formulas on line.

I was a little confused by the brand names. I have only found AL by Ecological Formulas, and LI by Cardiovascular Research (but something tells me they may be from the same parent company).

Then, is it not necessary to take both AL and LI, or are you just deciding between brands given their undesirable excipients (I'm not finding any other brands besides EF and CVR)?

 

[Kray]

His book looks interesting, but quite expensive!

 

[Homo Consumericus]

I have been mixing and matching right now, just kinda jumping around testing different levels of each. Like today, I am mostly doing Alli and Lipo and will prolly do this a couple days then go heavy on the HCL a few days. There has been discussion that tapering off towards the evening so sleep is not affected. Dr. Lonsdale feels a person should start out low and slow because "refeeding" syndrome can happen. Then work your way up. He says he has seen no toxicity problems with thiamine. He also says magnesium should be taken with it. He also says Thiamine does not deplete any of the other B's.

In the link you posted in a recent thread to his article on thiamine and allergies, Lonsdale mentions in the comments the importance of thiamine, manganese, and riboflavin for energy. You've mentioned magnesium a few times but does he not recommend manganese in addition?

 

[charlie]

You've mentioned magnesium a few times but does he not recommend manganese in addition?

Well technically he does because he recommends a multivitamin. I am getting most my manganese from maple syrup.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Well technically he does because he recommends a multivitamin. I am getting most my manganese from maple syrup.

Well then he doesn't seem to be worried about high doses of supplemental thiamine depleting low doses of manganese from diet and multivitamin.

 

[charlie]

Well then he doesn't seem to be worried about high doses of supplemental thiamine depleting low doses of manganese from diet and multivitamin.

I have not seen any indication that is a concern for him. He mostly keys on magnesium.