Danny's crusade against Mercola on Progest-E

[Pete Rey]

I think it is ironic that people like @Pete Rey and @ballomar complain that Charlie is pointing out some problems with following Ray Peat's recommendations but yet they don't even follow them. I was told I might have "overdone" Ray Peat's recommendations and that is why it didn't work. From what I read, very few people actually follow Ray Peat's recommendations.

You're ignoring every point I and others made and just repeating yourself to emphasize your belief. Just to make clear what's going on here. But you do you.

 

[Dolomite]

You're ignoring every point I and others made and just repeating yourself to emphasize your belief. Just to make clear what's going on here. But you do you.

What is the point you and others have made? I am sorry if I am not understanding what you have written. My belief is that we should perceive, think and act. It is not necessary for any of us to eat any particular foods no matter who recommends them. The forum has many topics and threads that do not align with Ray Peat's suggestions or writings. And that is fine. It is interesting to read other people's experiences. The forum is great because of it. I guess it because Charlie brought the information to the forum that people find it objectionable.

 

[vocedilegno]

I remember the story as well, but I forgot that piece! A wheat-germ-ONLY diet??? Haha Only Ray would do that lol. Yeah that could explain losing teeth rapidly…

Exactly, this story is one of the major reasons I have such respect for him. Assuming that my memory serves, it’s a great example, as Charlie put it of him “dying by his own sword”, I could also go with “putting his money where his mouth is” but perhaps the best way to put it would have been to say he did very serious “Perceive, think, act” and learned a very valuable lesson from it.

I don’t think this is the only reason he was wary of grains. Obviously there are many reasons why one should be wary of them, like the potential exposure to estrogenic mold and the prolactin/serotonin response to gluten apart from the question of digestibility.

I don’t think when he died, he died by his own sword. I think he fared exceedingly well (86 years of life) in the context of what health imprint he received in his early years, especially thinking about the anecdote of him having a X-ray fluoroscope waved over him when he was an infant. Given enough time, any environment will get the best of any of us.

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you for responding with Ray Peat diet recommendations. I don't think he thought the oxtail meat was necessarily good but he liked the gelatin broth it would make. His recommendations do not include starch of any kind. And he said to eat oysters once a week or less.

I think it is ironic that people like @Pete Rey and @ballomar complain that Charlie is pointing out some problems with following Ray Peat's recommendations but yet they don't even follow them. I was told I might have "overdone" Ray Peat's recommendations and that is why it didn't work. From what I read, very few people actually follow Ray Peat's recommendations. I think you, Jennifer, do so better than many and that is great.

You’re welcome. :) Yeah, I can’t recall if Ray mentioned eating the oxtail meat or not, but I have heard him say in interviews that he ate steak and bacon so it seems to me he wasn’t opposed to eating muscle meat. I’ve even heard him say that starch was fine if there aren’t any digestive issues. He spoke highly of potatoes, for instance.

 

[Honeycomb]

P.S. I don’t have the source handy for the wheat germ story but I remember it clearly
because of its relation to his discovery of the importance to the dietary Calcium/Phosphate ratio. He said he had experimented with a wheat-germ-only diet because he believed at the time that wheat germ was a perfect and complete nutritional source, and that when he lost several teeth from doing this he realized that it was because of the phosphate imbalance.

This account may have been something he said in an interview and it might take a long time to find. If anyone knows the reference please share here.

I think the interview you are thinking of is from On the Back of a Tiger - Day two

bioenergetic search

Transcript search engine

www.bioenergetic.life

00:29:24

 

[Pete Rey]

What is the point you and others have made? I am sorry if I am not understanding what you have written. My belief is that we should perceive, think and act. It is not necessary for any of us to eat any particular foods no matter who recommends them. The forum has many topics and threads that do not align with Ray Peat's suggestions or writings. And that is fine. It is interesting to read other people's experiences. The forum is great because of it. I guess it because Charlie brought the information to the forum that people find it objectionable.

I do not like to repeat myself, so you can read back for all that. But to summarize, the thing I find most objectionable is you or anyone else dictating where the line is for following Peat principles or not. A.k.a. the No True Scotsman fallacy.

And I agree, diverse perspectives are a great thing. I hold nothing against Charlie or anyone else for bringing it to the table. I simply find the manner of argumentation circular and frustrating and absolutist and wrapped in an ideological shell. So, I gave it my best shot, I've reached my rabbit hole limit, I've satisfied my own curiosity in that I believe I've put my thumb on what's really going on here which I have publicly stated, I'm not convinced carrots and oranges are toxic so I'm going to continue eating them, and I'm super happy that NOT doing that works for some people, just like I'm super happy that Peat principles work for some people.

/End rant, run-on sentence, and my commentary on the subject.

 

[ddjd]

No more Georgi and Danny podcasts then

 

[Brundle]

I'll warrant no good'll come of this, you mark my words.

 

[Peater]

I'll warrant no good'll come of this, you mark my words.

Agreed.

 

[daphne134]

I'll warrant no good'll come of this, you mark my words.

I don't know about that. Roddy probably did more than anyone to pigeonhole Ray Peat's work into a dogmatic, one-size-fits-all diet and supplementation plan. And tried to pull Peat far-right as well. The difference between Roddy and @haidut is evident now. Roddy believes one simply does not associate with anyone who questions the cannon. @haidut is (frankly) smarter, more nuanced and openminded - the way Peat was. They were always somewhat mismatched as a podcasting pair.

 

[gd81]

Roddy believes one simply does not associate with anyone who questions the cannon.

Roddy released his book, which is comprehensive, for free.

He's one of few people who have emphasised the importance of thyroid, as Ray did. That's contrast to the ocean of people who post on 'Ray Peat' websites/social media who have seemingly never read anything Peat wrote and instead get caught up taking all manner of useless or harmful supplements, disappearing down strange rabbit holes or getting involved with fads because they don't have the philosophical grounding that's the writings of Peat/Danny/Haiduts and others in the metabolic community would give them.

I don't see any authoritarianism in him, just a commitment to a philosophy.

He's obviously upset because he's a had lawsuit thrown at him and feels a bit alone, can't say I blame him. Their beef is over loyalties, not adherence to doctrine.

 

[ddjd]

Im sorry but imo its Georgi that made the generative energy podcast the success that it was. Danny definitely did well with the overall production but georgi is incredibly engaging and interesting to listen to - far more than ray or danny. so i dont agree with what danny says below.

As much as i appreciate the lifelong work of ray, I would literally turn off episodes with ray because he's just too frustrating to listen to.

ALSO, i dont understand dannys unhealthy infatuation, almost cult like obesession with ray. it goes agianst everything ray teaches

why should georgi have some blind alligience to Katherine??

 

[lamassu]

I can kind of see both sides of this situation. Kyle Mamounis's video seems relevant to this situation on the risks of getting in bed with dietary guru's peddling their brand and wares

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nALAS13kD_I&t=20s

 

[haidut]

Their beef is over loyalties, not adherence to doctrine.

That's what makes the whole situation absurd. I have no "loyalties" to the "other" side. All there has been so far is that I have been invited on a podcast 3-4 times. No financial, marketing, etc agreements of any kind. No pushing of products either, though this being M's show he is obviously free to promote whatever product he wants. If you listen to the podcasts, all we have been doing so far is basically discuss and promote Ray and his ideas on health. Then there was the incident with Progest-E, but M said he apologized to Danny in writing. Soooo...why is this dragging on, despite the apology?

 

[Truth]

That's what makes the whole situation absurd. I have no "loyalties" to the "other" side. All there has been so far is that I have been invited on a podcast 3-4 times. No financial, marketing, etc agreements of any kind. No pushing of products either, though this being M's show he is obviously free to promote whatever product he wants. If you listen to the podcasts, all we have been doing so far is basically discuss and promote Ray and his ideas on health. Then there was the incident with Progest-E, but M said he apologized to Danny in writing. Soooo...why is this dragging on, despite the apology?

Hi, did Joseph acknowledge and correct in writing and/or video, on his main accounts where he has the most exposure, that he had said something that potentially misleads a good portion of listeners?

( Joseph's claims about Progest-E bottles containing BPA, which Danny says are false, I haven't tested the bottles myself)

 

[haidut]

Hi, did Joseph acknowledge and correct in writing and/or video, on his main accounts where he has the most exposure, that he had said something that potentially misleads a good portion of listeners, such as Progest-E supplement contains "harmful plastic substances such as BPA"?

That I don't know. All I have is an email from M saying he apologized to Danny in writing, but that the apology has been ignored.

 

[Truth]

That I don't know. All I have is an email from M saying he apologized to Danny in writing, but that the apology has been ignored.

I suggest, it seems obvious that what Danny wants is not a personal apology from Joseph, and it seems obvious that a personal apology from Joseph to Danny doesn't change the fact that Joseph said partially false and partially misleading things about Progest-E, partially false and misleading things that can have a negative impact on Raymond's partner, and on the potential usefulness of Progest-E and its popularity,

Danny probably wishes at the very least that Joseph would say/acknowledge that he made partially false claims about Progest-E on BPA specifically, on one/more platforms where he has as much exposure as the channel where he shared the video with you where he makes these partially false claims about Progest-E

You write that due to the fact that Joseph made a personal apology to Danny by email, there is no reason for this to continue, do you think Joseph's personal apology to Danny corrects Joseph's partially false statements about Progest-E, correct the potential negative impact on Raymond's partner, and on Progest-E's popularity?

( Joseph's claims about Progest-E bottles containing BPA, which Danny says are false, I haven't tested the bottles myself)

 

[Orome]

What a sad turn of events . As much as I try to understand Danny but Dr. Mercola is free to say in his own podcast what he wants, independent if he did it due to financial interest or not.

Also, it’s not Georgi‘s job to start an argument about it with him.
And to be frank: I also don‘t exactly like the Progest-E bottle. I also don‘t like some of the Idealabs bottles (like Tocovit) but this does not stop me from buying it.

 

[Action]

That's what makes the whole situation absurd. I have no "loyalties" to the "other" side. All there has been so far is that I have been invited on a podcast 3-4 times. No financial, marketing, etc agreements of any kind. No pushing of products either, though this being M's show he is obviously free to promote whatever product he wants. If you listen to the podcasts, all we have been doing so far is basically discuss and promote Ray and his ideas on health. Then there was the incident with Progest-E, but M said he apologized to Danny in writing. Soooo...why is this dragging on, despite the apology?

I don't think mercola apologizing to Danny is gonna undo the damage he caused Katherine. While apologizing to Danny is a nice gesture, mercola needs to do right by Katherine and Ray and Progest-E. Also, didn't he threaten Danny with a lawsuit? He sounds real sincere... Seems like he's talking from both sides of his mouth.

 

[Dapose]

You know whose responsibility it was for looking after Katherine? Not Danny’s.
Danny has never experienced the loss of someone close to him (his words) and seems traumatized by it and is lashing out like a child. From my perspective.
I am sorry but for Danny to publicly say Georgi is a “shitfriend” that is F’ing terrible. The guy did nothing wrong and has only given 110% on every GE podcast ever. What Danny wrote on whatever social media that that stuff is posted from is just sad. Almost unreal.
Do we know this isn’t bots? I mean seriously what in the hell? I’m having trouble believing anything on this forum these days… pro authoritarian super anti-Peat disgusting crap. Charlie says the Peat diet (whatever that is) is feminizing men!!! What the hell is that?
Is it all just attack AI misinformation content? Are people on some major brainwashing Wi-Fi networks that’s frying their brains?
A normal Danny that I’ve listened to for hundreds of hours of podcasts and interviews would just call Georgi and chuckle and say hey man let’s talk.
Talking always makes things better then typing words on these cold devices. They separate us from our connections with people.