Is There A Good Multi Vitamin / Mineral Supplement ?

[TheBeard]

Liver, eggs and raw milk probably the best multivitamin

If your gut can tolerate raw milk.

For me it goes in my mouth and out my anus with less than 10 minutes in the form of diarrhea.

Wonder if after a course of antibiotics I will digest it better

@haidut @Amazoniac @charlie

 

[sevenzy]

If your gut can tolerate raw milk.

For me it goes in my mouth and out my anus with less than 10 minutes in the form of diarrhea.

Wonder if after a course of antibiotics I will digest it better

@haidut @Amazoniac @charlie

Ive heard Danny Roddy say he could drink milk after taking penacylin vk. I have heard/read Kate Deering say there are ways to get over milk intolerance. I'm mainly eating cheese and using organic ultra pasturized milk for coffee right now since raw milk is hard to get. I'm considering getting a Nigerian dwarf milking goat down the road for backyard raw milk production.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

what are the purposes of taking lysine and theanine? Isn't lysine a 5-ar inhibitor. Also does taurine raise prolactin?

Both lysine and theanine lower serotonin in the gut. I think both of them contributed for the massive increase in muscle mass and the just overall highly anabolic state that I keep myself in most of the time. When I started taking them, I didn't know that they were going to help so much with muscle development. Also, lysine lowers nitric oxide, which is a substance that can interfere with energy production( at the level of the electron transport chain). I never read anything that suggests that lysine is a 5-AR inhibitor. Do you have a source for that?

I heard that taurine raises prolactin, but I think it's because it's na aminoacid, which stimulates insulin. Insulin lowers blood sugar, and when blood sugar falls, prolactin is one of the stress hormones that rises. Growth hormone increases too when blood sugar is low. If you ingest plenty of carbs with taurine, I don't think there will be an increase in stress hormones( including prolactin).

 

[TheBeard]

Ive heard Danny Roddy say he could drink milk after taking penacylin vk. I have heard/read Kate Deering say there are ways to get over milk intolerance. I'm mainly eating cheese and using organic ultra pasturized milk for coffee right now since raw milk is hard to get. I'm considering getting a Nigerian dwarf milking goat down the road for backyard raw milk production.

Can you remember where Danny said that?
That’d be gold

 

[BigChad]

Both lysine and theanine lower serotonin in the gut. I think both of them contributed for the massive increase in muscle mass and the just overall highly anabolic state that I keep myself in most of the time. When I started taking them, I didn't know that they were going to help so much with muscle development. Also, lysine lowers nitric oxide, which is a substance that can interfere with energy production( at the level of the electron transport chain). I never read anything that suggests that lysine is a 5-AR inhibitor. Do you have a source for that?

I heard that taurine raises prolactin, but I think it's because it's na aminoacid, which stimulates insulin. Insulin lowers blood sugar, and when blood sugar falls, prolactin is one of the stress hormones that rises. Growth hormone increases too when blood sugar is low. If you ingest plenty of carbs with taurine, I don't think there will be an increase in stress hormones( including prolactin).

I thought theanine would not be approved? I remember reading it raised histamine among other things iirc.
I cant find the stuff on lysine ill have to get back to you once i do but i avoided magnesium lysinate glycinate for that reason.

Doesn't beta alanine raise nitric oxide levels? Nitric oxide promotes blood flow right. I didnt know it was a negative.

Thats interesting you noticed those effects and muscle increase, were lysine and theanine the only changes you made for more muscle?

Do you think 40g carbs would be enough with 2g taurine

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I thought theanine would not be approved? I remember reading it raised histamine among other things iirc.
I cant find the stuff on lysine ill have to get back to you once i do but i avoided magnesium lysinate glycinate for that reason.

Doesn't beta alanine raise nitric oxide levels? Nitric oxide promotes blood flow right. I didnt know it was a negative.

Thats interesting you noticed those effects and muscle increase, were lysine and theanine the only changes you made for more muscle?

Do you think 40g carbs would be enough with 2g taurine

Peat doesn't like supplements much at all, so strictly speaking, theanine and lysine aren't peaty. Theanine, as far as I know, is an antihistamine: Theanine Is An Antihistamine. I also increases dopamine.

I recall that beta alanine lowers serotonin and, according to haidut, it is a GABA agonist. I don't know anything about nitric oxide increases from this aminoacid. Nitric oxide indeed promotes blood flow, but it is only supposed to be used in emergencies/ stressful situations. When the organism is calm and rested, blood flow is promoted and maintained by carbon dioxide. So lots of carbs and b-vitamins, as well as healthy thyroid hormone levels, are a better way to keep the blood flowing correctly.

I also changed my carbohydrate intake, aside from lysine and theanine, so the combination of these factors, instead of any one thing, was responsible for the big changes. I went from eating probably only 100 or 200 grams of carbs( from starch) to eating at least( but usually more than) 400 grams of carbs per day( mostly from sucrose and fruit juice). The fact that my organs were supplied with tons of carbohydrate was a great signal to stop catabolizing muscle tissue, that way the aminoacids from my diet could be used for tissue growth and renewal. Lysine by itself without the ample amounts of sugar would have just increased ammonia and caused hypoglycemia.

In my experience, the longer you use taurine, the better your blood sugar control will be( up to a point). That means things that in the past would have caused hypoglycemia now don't have that effect or have it to a much lesser degree. If this is one of the first times you try taurine, I would try to take after a meal with enough protein, safe fats and lots of sugar. That way, the taurine will enter the bloodstream more slowly and won't have such a dramatic effect on the levels of sugar in the blood. I feel like 40 grams of carbs, for a short period of time( half an hour to an hour), especially with a meal, may be enough, but I would have some sugary drink/food at hand in case you feel the hypoglycemia. Btw, I would start with lower doses. When I first tried taurine, 500 mg had a huge effect. Just a few minutes later, I was sweating a lot and I felt a cramp near my liver and chest( which I think was my gallbladder being stimulated). I also felt a very nice euphoric feeling. The next day, I used the same dosage, but the effect was less intense. After a week or two, the effect was much smoother, and that's when I started slowly increasing the dosage. Nowadays I use about 4 grams per day and the effects are still very smooth.

 

[matisvijs]

Haven't seen a multivitamin that I would take in 10+ years I've been into health. The first step however, would be to break down your daily diet into all the micronutrients to see which vitamins/minerals you're deficient in and whether you would need supplements at all. You can do this using cronometer.com for instance.

If you really need to go the supplemental route, the best approach would be to get every mineral/vitamin that you know you're not getting into food in seperate combos like this:

1. If not eating liver, a quality fat-soluble vit. A/D/K2/E supplement should suffice
2. A quality B-complex for days you need extra energy
3. Low dose zinc+copper combo if not eating shellfish, oysters.
4. Maybe a selenium supplement 200mcg/2-3x week if you eat absolutely no eggs.

If you're eating fruit, dairy and salting your food then electrolytes (potassium, magnesium, calcium and sodium) should be plenty and shouldn't be supplemented. The same with vit.C. The iron that is in most multivitamins is harmful and adds to more oxidative damage and free radical production. You get too much phosphorus in food as it is.

 

[BigChad]

Haven't seen a multivitamin that I would take in 10+ years I've been into health. The first step however, would be to break down your daily diet into all the micronutrients to see which vitamins/minerals you're deficient in and whether you would need supplements at all. You can do this using cronometer.com for instance.

If you really need to go the supplemental route, the best approach would be to get every mineral/vitamin that you know you're not getting into food in seperate combos like this:

1. If not eating liver, a quality fat-soluble vit. A/D/K2/E supplement should suffice
2. A quality B-complex for days you need extra energy
3. Low dose zinc+copper combo if not eating shellfish, oysters.
4. Maybe a selenium supplement 200mcg/2-3x week if you eat absolutely no eggs.

If you're eating fruit, dairy and salting your food then electrolytes (potassium, magnesium, calcium and sodium) should be plenty and shouldn't be supplemented. The same with vit.C. The iron that is in most multivitamins is harmful and adds to more oxidative damage and free radical production. You get too much phosphorus in food as it is.

Could you give insight on a pro duct containing 1000mcg k1, 1500mcg k2 mk4, 300mcg mk7, taken 4x a week.

Would nutrigolds vitamin e gold be fine taken 3x a week? Has 40mg mixed tocopherols but also 40mg mixed tocotrienols. Olive oil softgel, vitamins from red palm and sunflower.

Does ground beef and lamb contain iodine and selenium? Whole milk has 55mcg iodine per cup right

What about chromium, manganese and molyndenum. Those seem difficult to get. Im unsure if rda is accurate? 100mcg chromium, 75mcg molybdenum, 2.3mg manganese seem tough to get from diet. Ive alsi seen manganese being called estrogenic on here not sure of the mechanisms

 

[baccheion]

Haven't seen a multivitamin that I would take in 10+ years I've been into health. The first step however, would be to break down your daily diet into all the micronutrients to see which vitamins/minerals you're deficient in and whether you would need supplements at all. You can do this using cronometer.com for instance.

If you really need to go the supplemental route, the best approach would be to get every mineral/vitamin that you know you're not getting into food in seperate combos like this:

1. If not eating liver, a quality fat-soluble vit. A/D/K2/E supplement should suffice
2. A quality B-complex for days you need extra energy
3. Low dose zinc+copper combo if not eating shellfish, oysters.
4. Maybe a selenium supplement 200mcg/2-3x week if you eat absolutely no eggs.

If you're eating fruit, dairy and salting your food then electrolytes (potassium, magnesium, calcium and sodium) should be plenty and shouldn't be supplemented. The same with vit.C. The iron that is in most multivitamins is harmful and adds to more oxidative damage and free radical production. You get too much phosphorus in food as it is.

Vitamins and minerals can also be taken therapeutically. Once diet is reasonable, vitamin D3 is usually the only supplemented needed.

 

[matisvijs]

Vitamins and minerals can also be taken therapeutically. Once diet is reasonable, vitamin D3 is usually the only supplemented needed to maintain sufficiency. Even magnesium needs can be met via diet, with supplements mainly being taken initially to correct a deficiency.

Sure, just that when one asks about a multivitamin, their goal is to generally 'cover their bases' rather than use it for any particular therapeutic reason, e.g. magnesium as an anti-depressant.

 

[baccheion]

Sure, just that when one asks about a multivitamin, their goal is to generally 'cover their bases' rather than use it for any particular therapeutic reason, e.g. magnesium as an anti-depressant.

Hmm... Thorne 2/day is one of the cleanest multivitamins I've come across. I also like AOR Ortho-Core.

 

[matisvijs]

Hmm... Thorne 2/day is one of the cleanest multivitamins I've come across. I also like AOR Ortho-Core.

Contains Silicon Dioxide if I'm reading correctly? Otherwise, I'd agree, though it has 'filler' ingredients like magnesium at 20mg and calcium at 30mg. Boron can cause an estrogen increase in some cases by lowering SHBG.

 

[baccheion]

Contains Silicon Dioxide if I'm reading correctly? Otherwise, I'd agree, though it has 'filler' ingredients like magnesium at 20mg and calcium at 30mg. Boron can cause an estrogen increase in some cases by lowering SHBG.

Mainly at higher amounts. The serving in that multi is 2 mg. SHBG has a higher affinity for DHT than estrogen. Wouldn't improved estrogen clearance as a result of B vitamins offset any such occurrence? Also, is such an increase lingering or only when initially lowered?

 

[matisvijs]

Mainly at higher amounts. The serving in that multi is 2 mg. SHBG has a higher affinity for DHT than estrogen. Wouldn't improved estrogen clearance as a result of B vitamins offset any such occurrence? Also, is such an increase lingering or only when initially lowered?

In the study I added they used 10mg/day boron for 4 weeks and saw a pretty marked increase in 17 -B oestradiol. I guess if you do use it (in higher amounts, as you mentioned) the increase seems to be lingering, as a month later all of the subjects 17 -B oestradiol had climbed by a predictable amount (pretty much by the same amount in all of them).

 

[BigChad]

Contains Silicon Dioxide if I'm reading correctly? Otherwise, I'd agree, though it has 'filler' ingredients like magnesium at 20mg and calcium at 30mg. Boron can cause an estrogen increase in some cases by lowering SHBG.

Thats true, but do you think lowering shbg is a good thing?
I read zinc, calcium, magnesium, vitamin d, fish oil, and boron among other things decrease shbg.

 

[BigChad]

Thats true, but do you think lowering shbg is a good thing?
I read zinc, calcium, magnesium, vitamin d, fish oil, and boron among other things decrease shbg.

Also doesn't shbg preferably bind to dht and testosterone more so than estrogen? so in all cases lowering SHBG is a good thing?

 

[BigChad]

Contains Silicon Dioxide if I'm reading correctly? Otherwise, I'd agree, though it has 'filler' ingredients like magnesium at 20mg and calcium at 30mg. Boron can cause an estrogen increase in some cases by lowering SHBG.

Btw a single capsule of thornes 3-K vitamin k product contains 15.6mg silicon...that seems far too much. Even centrum multivitamins put only 2mg. Thorne literally said they put the silicon in there to fill the capsule. They could use smaller capsules. I'm wary of thorne being the highest quality or safest supplements. They don't seem to have consumers health in mind. 15mg silicon just to fill up a capsule is ridiculous