Announcement Forum Official Stance on "vitamin A" Research, Studies, & Direction

[TheDogsDid-It!]

Ooops! :) You can always change your name if you want by clicking here: https://raypeatforum.com/community/account/account-details

LOL! Thanks so much!

 

[tallglass13]

ALT is a blood lab measure of liver health. Dr. Attia says that ALT should be below 19 for optimum liver health. What I don't see on this Vit A forum is what was the ALT before and after minimizing Vit A. Anecdotal "I feel better" is not proof. Only blood lab measurements and RCT can be accepted **** proof.

Oh jeepers Dennis, There are plenty of liver labs in the big VA thread you will be amazed. I enjoyed the liver and Cholesterol panels dropping from 275 total cholesterol to 150, all while eating red meat and no drug intervention!

 

[charlie]

Oh jeepers Dennis, There are plenty of liver labs in the big VA thread you will be amazed. I enjoyed the liver and Cholesterol panels dropping from 275 total cholesterol to 150, all while eating red meat and no drug intervention!

Yup, my total cholesterol went from around 500 to around 140.

 

[tallglass13]

Charlie how is it ethical that you can speak for everyone on the forum? Pro PUFA arguments and studies were allowed on the forum even though they were marked as "anti Peat", and id argue to an extent they were necessary to learn, echo chambers become the death of progress. Why not do the same if you want to have some overarching statement over all forum members. Label whatever thing you consider "anti Garrett" or whatever, but let it at least exist...

I know you are asking Charlie, but I understand and agree with Charlie on this one because people are trying to debate something that cannot be debated. So it is a waste of time and energy to read and attempt to answer people who are just not reading or understanding that Vitamin A toxicity exist in all common medical literature. To go even further, often times it appear people are seriously trolling. VA toxicity is now proven to be even more common and happen more easily that the Mainstream Medical books are noting. And so, by the small chance that VA is needed, it is only needed in such minute amounts , but any more than that can cause Cholestasis. This is all proven. People are confused in thinking that the Low Toxin Diet is saying that Milk and cheese and liver will kill you. No, it won't, otherwise we would all be dead. But it will make people sick in the long run, and make dying of Cirrhosis, artery calcification, missing teeth, etc happen earlier. However, there are people that did die in the short run or immediately after consuming a gigantic amount of VA in one sitting.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yup, my total cholesterol went from around 500 to around 140.

Wow Charlie! you should post that on your log!

 

[charlie]

I know you are asking Charlie, but I understand and agree with Charlie on this one because people are trying to debate something that cannot be debated. So it is a waste of time and energy to read and attempt to answer people who are just not reading or understanding that Vitamin A toxicity exist in all common medical literature. To go even further, VA toxicity is now proven to be even more common and happen more easily that the Mainstream Medical books are noting. And so, by the small chance that VA is needed, it is only needed in such minute amounts , but any more than that can cause Cholestasis. This is all proven. People are confused in thinking that the Low Toxin Diet is saying that Milk and cheese and liver will kill you. No, it won't, otherwise we would all be dead. But it will make people sick in the long run, and make dying of Cirrhosis, artery calcification, missing teeth, etc happen earlier. However, there are people that did die in the short run or immediately after consuming a gigantic amount of VA in one sitting.

Yup, it is a total waste of everyone's time even trying to debate it out because the picture is so clear yet many refuse to even look at it. All the debate will do is hold people back from healing because it will keep them confused. The evidence is now crystal clear, not much if any "vitamin A" is needed and the accumulation effects are disastrous in the long run. Here we are trying to save people from possibly miserable and degenerative deaths, while some of them try to tear me down financially and figure out any way they can to bring litigation against me and attempt to throw me in jail while some would outright kill me if they could. It's a strange world.

Wow Charlie! you should post that on your log!

Will do.

 

[Blossom]

I was in the hospital October 2013. I had never had signs of UC before that time, nor since leaving the hospital, or even up to this point in time. I actually didn't even have a GP doctor in 2013, nor before 2013, because I never had any illnesses to move me to find one. I only had a naturopath for BHRT, which I started to see in 2012.

I had suddenly gotten sick in 2013 and called my naturopath's office to cancel an appointment, telling the receptionist I had really bad diarrhea and wouldn't be able to sit in the waiting room. The naturopath called me and asked my symptoms and how often I was going to the bathroom. I wasn't really leaving the bathroom at that point. He told me to come in anyway and he was waiting. He put an IV in me to rehydrate, took stool samples and tested for two types of infection he thought it might be (I later learned neither of which was found). He told me to take charcoal, and gave me a prescription for VCL#3 probiotic. But upon returning home I started passing blood, so I went to the ER that night.

The hospital stay was probably one of the worst experience in my life. After being stabilized, I was pumped full of everything and anything that could kill off any type of life form trying to invade. They said they could not tell me what or if any invaders, because of the urgency with time. Then they pumped me full of morphine, which I protested, because I was not in enough pain to call for that, but they said it was necessary, because they had to do IVs for potassium, which will feel like fire. They then did CAT scans and told me I had UC, and my immune system had caused so much damage, I would most likely not leave the hospital with my colon, and they suspected liver valve damage, so an MRI would be next, and to not be surprised if I would need a liver transplant as well. They had me get all my financial affairs in order and legal papers were given to assign someone to make decisions on my behalf. I had this weird out-of-body experience at that point and lost any fear connected to the situation.

The first thing I noticed was the body language from the 1st doctor/surgeon that came in to tell me all of the above. Very nice and compassionate, until I started to argue all his answers as not practical. Maybe the morphine made me do that? Nice left the room though, and I could go on and on about the out-of-body thing, but long story short, I had to get outside help from a friend's doctor (the friend did have UC and surgery), so I could get discharged. That hospital has since closed, interestingly enough.

I've poured everything into research from that point forward. Joined the SCD lifestyle diet thing at first (didn't help); did elimination diets (didn't help because it took too long); took classes on PubMed; took classes from DrTalks....the list is long. My naturopath, luckily, was young and curious, so he ordered more tests I wasn't really aware of, for IgA and IgE. I didn't have either. He kept ordering the IgA tests over time and concluded I was might have IgA Deficiency Disorder, and picked up a parasite that caused my immune system to over react. I did have a light-bulb moment for where and how that could have happened with the parasite, as my job took me to remote locations where I had to eat the food available, and not in the cleanest conditions. So, maybe the IgA is my big issue.

I did see an immunologist and he said nothing can be done about the IgA DD, except antibiotics if sick, and I should be happy about the IgE thing. That told me nothing, so before I had another out-of-body experience I left LOL! So back to PubMed to study IgA DD. I don't get it. I don't get sick, not even as a kid. I was exposed to COVID many times, because I had to do frequent travel to be with my daughter, which was diagnosed stage 4 cancer at the beginning of the pandemic, and I didn't catch COVID then. My life partner caught COVID a few times and I learned my dentist had it at the time he saw me (which he didn't know it at the time), and I didn't catch his. I finally caught COVID last year, after a shoulder injury that required prednisone and PT for six weeks. The PT staff had an outbreak and notified me, so I tested and I showed positive, but the weird thing is, I only had sniffles and no down time. I feel like I only caught it because the prednisone lowered my immune system. I just got back from a cruise in Europe and all the friends we went with caught COVID, but I didn't. So I just don't get the IgA issue, since that supposedly protects mucus membranes. But I hang on to that being the reason I got sick and hospitalized, since I have no other explanations. I did have one other factor involved, which was HUGE stress at the time, with a deadline to complete an environmental review before grant money was lost for a World Heritage site. I was probably sicker than I noticed, because I didn't have the option to stop working. In fact, I finished it on the same day I went into the ER. Recent DNA testing shows I don't have the genes for detoxing, so I bought a sauna and that has made the world of difference too with my health. Glutathione should be a problem for me to produce without those genes; but my doctor sent me to LabCorp for that test, and glutathinone levels were really good.

But right now, I have no UC symptoms (and again, not since leaving the hospital)

Wow, what an experience!!! I’m so glad you made it out with all of your body parts. I really admire your perseverance and dedication to solving your health issues ma’am! I’m also impressed (and inspired) by your muscle mass. I was satisfied with my meager 50.1% hahaha!
Edit- I looked at my smart scale readout and the 50% was just the skeletal muscle estimate. Total muscle mass was in the 70’s like yours so I guess I’m doing okay after all. :)

 

[RealNeat]

I know you are asking Charlie, but I understand and agree with Charlie on this one because people are trying to debate something that cannot be debated. So it is a waste of time and energy to read and attempt to answer people who are just not reading or understanding that Vitamin A toxicity exist in all common medical literature. To go even further, often times it appear people are seriously trolling. VA toxicity is now proven to be even more common and happen more easily that the Mainstream Medical books are noting. And so, by the small chance that VA is needed, it is only needed in such minute amounts , but any more than that can cause Cholestasis. This is all proven. People are confused in thinking that the Low Toxin Diet is saying that Milk and cheese and liver will kill you. No, it won't, otherwise we would all be dead. But it will make people sick in the long run, and make dying of Cirrhosis, artery calcification, missing teeth, etc happen earlier. However, there are people that did die in the short run or immediately after consuming a gigantic amount of VA in one sitting.

Everything can be debated. I dont know of anyone who says Vitamin A is not toxic at a certain level. Its the nuances that need attention. Ray had patience for people who constantly reiterated the same tired lines about PUFA being essential, he approached them with respect and reeducated them and taught us all in the process. Censorship is hardly ever the answer when searching for truth, no matter how convinced you may be at the moment. Think off all the other times in your life where you were "totally convinced" imagine you shut all the doors around you and plugged your ears. Where would you be today? I always read things that question my beliefs, I feel it makes me a well-rounded person.

 

[purple pill]

Everything can be debated. I dont know of anyone who says Vitamin A is not toxic at a certain level. Its the nuances that need attention. Ray had patience for people who constantly reiterated the same tired lines about PUFA being essential, he approached them with respect and reeducated them and taught us all in the process. Censorship is hardly ever the answer when searching for truth, no matter how convinced you may be at the moment. Think off all the other times in your life where you were "totally convinced" imagine you shut all the doors around you and plugged your ears. Where would you be today? I always read things that question my beliefs, I feel it makes me a well-rounded person.

Yup....I'd probably be a very malnourished, stressed out and crazed vegan or fruitarian

 

[purple pill]

Although...... every diet mindset i've adopted through the years does seem to be a progression. (I do believe you have to somewhat block out all contradictory ideas to truly give something a shot and progress an idea) Ray peat was definitely a progression from keto, but still doesn't work for me and i've felt an underlying impression that is the case for the vast majority of others on here newcomers and old timers, many seem to keep experimenting with all different kinds of different supplements trying to find the missing piece, t3/t4, succinic acid, methylene blue, dht, progesterone, testosterone, aspirin, amino acid ratios, cypro, huge doses of caffeine, k2, research chemicals and on and on and on.....theres clearly something missing or they keep shoveling them in to keep their overburdened poisoned liver from dumping and making them feel crap.

Anyway the low A/toxin diet is definitely feeling like a progression, i think the question is can the low a/toxin group still co-exist on a forum with members who keep and i apoligize.....keep banging their head against the wall trying to persevere with some of Peats ideas that don't work or trying to experiment with a supplement that will make it work. If it really worked for most (yes i know these ideas are nuanced and everyones different) they wouldn't even have to debate it or keep testing crazy supplements at crazy doses, thats the thing with things that work....no one debates on here everyday that carbs from lets say rice are good, its accepted(even though not exactly peaty). I think we can co-exist.... with the progress of members who have adopted the low A/toxin diet eventually shining through and changing the bar naturally.

 

[Apple]

Yup, my total cholesterol went from around 500 to around 140.

That's impressive. It means very low level of inflamation . Dr Ellsworth Wareham had cholesterol 117, but 140 is a pretty decent number .
Do you add any salt to your foods?

 

[charlie]

Do you add any salt to your foods?

I use 50/50 salt for all my salt needs. Here is the recipe below. I even take it with me when I eat out, I ask them not to put any spices or salt or pepper on my food and I use my 50/50 salt instead.

50/50 Salt Recipe
-50% Potassium Chloride 8 ounces
-50% Salt 8 ounces (Jacobsons Salt co.)
-1/2 Teaspoon of Cream of Tartar (some people use 1/4 teaspoon)

 

[Dave Clark]

Everything can be debated. I dont know of anyone who says Vitamin A is not toxic at a certain level. Its the nuances that need attention. Ray had patience for people who constantly reiterated the same tired lines about PUFA being essential, he approached them with respect and reeducated them and taught us all in the process. Censorship is hardly ever the answer when searching for truth, no matter how convinced you may be at the moment. Think off all the other times in your life where you were "totally convinced" imagine you shut all the doors around you and plugged your ears. Where would you be today? I always read things that question my beliefs, I feel it makes me a well-rounded person.

I agree. Years ago I took fish oil supplements, and was dogmatic that they were great for my health, now I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. The biochemistry made sense regarding any PUFA, so I quit them along with the seed oils, etc.
I am glad this forum is now telling us how to think, takes the burden off of us. Gives me time to laugh.

 

[Source Code]

I feed my dog liver regularly and they have all lived to over 20 years old

 

[No_Energy]

Hi @charlie, I think you have done a great job for all these years,but, and please don't take this the wrong way, but as a friend, I'll just say it bluntly, you're going to destroy the forum if you keep this new behavior and attitudes. Freedom of Thought and Speech comes first, and it is the first Value that has to be protected.you can't just decide yourself what people should believe or are allowed to discuss, be it vitamin A or anything else, this is just wrong. People have the right to express their thoughts, debate, and then make their own decisions. Also lately you have been banning people on emotional reactions and without good reason. I am glad @haidut is back and posting, he is the most productive user in this forum, you would kill the forum by banning him like that. But now you are deciding to censor people from posting and discussing a topic like vitamin A or whatever?. This is just crazy, This is some Socialist/Communist dictartorship type of sh#t. I wish you well, hear me out, Get rid of that mentality man, for your own good and the good of this forum.
Best Regards,

 

[BRENBAIL]

I'm a newcomer here, and I know I've been brainwashed about what good nutrition is about. I've been down many rabbit holes trying to figure out my own health, as well as the health and healing of my family. I've been down the GAPS diet, AIP, low FODMAP diet, elimination diets, intermittent fasting, keto, Morley Robbins and the Root Cause Protocol (which many may know is promoting copper being the number 1 nutrient for healing but is total opposite here), and now Ray Peat evolving to a low-toxin diet. When I hear that this diet is the best, but no this diet is, and on-and-on, I can't help but be skeptical. Even doing a search about Vitamin A on this forum shows a list of positive studies about Vitamin A (earlier forum days-please don't delete them). I do believe that the medical industry and research are now bought and paid for by large companies with agendas, or by the pharmaceutical industry to keep us sick and on their pills so they do manipulate research for their own benefit. My point is that from a newbie's perspective (and I would think many others here as well trying a plethora of different diets), that we need HEALTHY, RESPECTFUL, debates. Being new, I still see this low-toxin lifestyle representing the 'Perceive, Think, Act' title. But I need help in sorting this out, so it is helpful if I can refer to a study that demonstrated positive outcomes with Vitamin A for someone to point out that this was faulty because.....
Please be patient with me while I adjust humble hat :)

 

[RealNeat]

I'm a newcomer here, and I know I've been brainwashed about what good nutrition is about. I've been down many rabbit holes trying to figure out my own health, as well as the health and healing of my family. I've been down the GAPS diet, AIP, low FODMAP diet, elimination diets, intermittent fasting, keto, Morley Robbins and the Root Cause Protocol (which many may know is promoting copper being the number 1 nutrient for healing but is total opposite here), and now Ray Peat evolving to a low-toxin diet. When I hear that this diet is the best, but no this diet is, and on-and-on, I can't help but be skeptical. Even doing a search about Vitamin A on this forum shows a list of positive studies about Vitamin A (earlier forum days-please don't delete them). I do believe that the medical industry and research are now bought and paid for by large companies with agendas, or by the pharmaceutical industry to keep us sick and on their pills so they do manipulate research for their own benefit. My point is that from a newbie's perspective (and I would think many others here as well trying a plethora of different diets), that we need HEALTHY, RESPECTFUL, debates. Being new, I still see this low-toxin lifestyle representing the 'Perceive, Think, Act' title. But I need help in sorting this out, so it is helpful if I can refer to a study that demonstrated positive outcomes with Vitamin A for someone to point out that this was faulty because.....
Please be patient with me while I adjust humble hat :)

If you have fatty liver and (liver) glycogen storage issues avoid vA until its resolved. Thats as simple as I can make it.

 

[Izzybelle]

I feed my dog liver regularly and they have all lived to over 20 years old

Good to know. I've been giving it to my dog more or less weekly since she was a pup at about 8 weeks and she is very strong and healthy at almost 8 years old. She loves it, but I can only choke down a little when I make her some. People say that even regular dog food is made with a lot of liver and is high in Vitamin A and it had me wondering if that could be a factor in why female dogs do not experience menopause like humans do.

 

[Ashs]

All you had to do was read up a few posts for the answer.

I use 50/50 salt for all my salt needs. Here is the recipe below. I even take it with me when I eat out, I ask them not to put any spices or salt or pepper on my food and I use my 50/50 salt instead.

50/50 Salt Recipe
-50% Potassium Chloride 8 ounces
-50% Salt 8 ounces (Jacobsons Salt co.)
-1/2 Teaspoon of Cream of Tartar (some people use 1/4 teaspoon)

Hi Charlie, what is the relevance of 'cream of tartar' from a health point of view. Is it absolutely necessary in that mix or can it be missed, and if so will there be drawbacks.
Thanks...

 

[RealNeat]

Hi Charlie, what is the relevance of 'cream of tartar' from a health point of view. Is it absolutely necessary in that mix or can it be missed, and if so will there be drawbacks.
Thanks...

Cream of tartar can be quite an irritant to people because it can contain sulfites as a result of the tartaric acid (byproduct of wine making) so molybdenum rich foods or supps may be needed to tolerate it. Potassium chloride may be a cleaner alternative but with a different flavor.