Announcement Forum Official Stance on "vitamin A" Research, Studies, & Direction

[Ashs]

Cream of tartar can be quite an irritant to people because it can contain sulfites as a result of the tartaric acid (byproduct of wine making) so molybdenum rich foods or supps may be needed to tolerate it. Potassium chloride may be a cleaner alternative but with a different flavor.

But there is Potassium chloride in the mix already.

 

[charlie]

Hi Charlie, what is the relevance of 'cream of tartar' from a health point of view. Is it absolutely necessary in that mix or can it be missed, and if so will there be drawbacks.
Thanks...

It's basically just to help with the taste and add in a bit more potassium.

 

[charlie]

But I need help in sorting this out, so it is helpful if I can refer to a study that demonstrated positive outcomes with Vitamin A for someone to point out that this was faulty because.....
Please be patient with me while I adjust humble hat :)

Poison "vitamin A" can look like it is doing great things by suppressing the symptoms, but in the long run it is doing more damage by allowing the toxins to accumulate. The accumulation effects are the killer which makes "vitamin A" a slow killer that will creep up on you and all of a sudden can hit you with the "vitamin A" cascade hits like Anthony Mawson has written about.

At no other time in history has a low "vitamin A" and low toxin diet/lifestyle been done. Other low toxin diets have been tried, but no other time has this been done that we know of and the results people are seeing have been miraculous. People healing of things that doctors told them they could never heal of like stage 4 kidney disease, liver disease, and type 1 diabetes. That is truly remarkable.

 

[InChristAlone]

Good to know. I've been giving it to my dog more or less weekly since she was a pup at about 8 weeks and she is very strong and healthy at almost 8 years old. She loves it, but I can only choke down a little when I make her some. People say that even regular dog food is made with a lot of liver and is high in Vitamin A and it had me wondering if that could be a factor in why female dogs do not experience menopause like humans do.

I already said this on another thread, but I'm going to say it again because it seems people don't understand context.

We are not dogs.

Something that is good for a dog doesn't mean it is good for a human. They are obligate carnivores. Humans are not. They process retinol differently than we do. They regularly eat it due to their carnivore diet, we don't.

Cows also seem to process beta carotene differently than we do. They eat a lot of it, we don't.

 

[Izzybelle]

I already said this on another thread, but I'm going to say it again because it seems people don't understand context.

We are not dogs.

Something that is good for a dog doesn't mean it is good for a human. They are obligate carnivores. Humans are not. They process retinol differently than we do. They regularly eat it due to their carnivore diet, we don't.

Cows also seem to process beta carotene differently than we do. They eat a lot of it, we don't.

Cows are not carnivorous like we are but are ruminants with specalized stomachs for processing and providing Vitamin A through their milk to their offspring. I've seen the explanation that dogs 'are just different' and it seems to me that it is not exactly known why dogs do not experience menopause and until that time I'm keeping my mind open as to the explanation, and I think it is logical to speculate on whether it has to do with a high vitamin A intake as we know that vitamin a is required for steroidogenesis. Who is to say that the rise of mankind didn't have anything to do with our ability to tap into the milk of ruminant animals and obtain the benefits without having to eat heaps of green and orange vegetables to get Vitamin a and calcium from plant sources?

 

[charlie]

Cows are not carnivorous like we are but are ruminants with specalized stomachs for processing and providing Vitamin A through their milk to their offspring. I've seen the explanation that dogs 'are just different' and it seems to me that it is not exactly known why dogs do not experience menopause and until that time I'm keeping my mind open as to the explanation, and I think it is logical to speculate on whether it has to do with a high vitamin A intake as we know that vitamin a is required for steroidogenesis. Who is to say that the rise of mankind didn't have anything to do with our ability to tap into the milk of ruminant animals and obtain the benefits without having to eat heaps of green and orange vegetables to get Vitamin a and calcium from plant sources?

People in the low toxin groups are seeing their dogs get better by putting them on a low "vitamin A" diet too.

 

[mosaic01]

I know a cat that gets fed tons of liver daily, and at one point it started to pluck his own fur. 1/4 or so of the fur is gone. Cats are not made for this either, especially not when they are in the house all day, regularly dewormed, etc.

 

[Izzybelle]

People in the low toxin groups are seeing their dogs get better by putting them on a low "vitamin A" diet too.

Lots of dogs in Mexico where my dog is from that are on a low A diet because there are many poor people that can only afford to feed their dogs tortillas and some broth or a little meat and those dogs do not fare as well especially as they age. I had a conversation with a Mexican woman who had lost her dog and explained to me that it was 8 years old and could not run very fast and I was surprised that it seemed expected that 8 was elderly for a dog. Mine hasn't slowed much -- much to my dismay sometimes as I'm getting older and she's always been a bundle of energy and I have trouble keeping up :)

 

[charlie]

little meat and those dogs do not fare as well especially as they age.

And there is your answer, because they get little meat. So they are starved of protein, taurine and zinc. The low toxin movement is a meat based diet and that is one of the reason why people thrive.

 

[InChristAlone]

Cows are not carnivorous like we are but are ruminants with specalized stomachs for processing and providing Vitamin A through their milk to their offspring. I've seen the explanation that dogs 'are just different' and it seems to me that it is not exactly known why dogs do not experience menopause and until that time I'm keeping my mind open as to the explanation, and I think it is logical to speculate on whether it has to do with a high vitamin A intake as we know that vitamin a is required for steroidogenesis. Who is to say that the rise of mankind didn't have anything to do with our ability to tap into the milk of ruminant animals and obtain the benefits without having to eat heaps of green and orange vegetables to get Vitamin a and calcium from plant sources?

Research shows levels of vitamin A stores go up as we age, so how could it be someone doesn't have enough to keep menstruating? Like I said the more simple explanation is we are not dogs. I really hate the comparison to animals. It goes along the same thought that all mammals come from a single ancestor. No. God created each kind differently. We didn't come from apes, we didn't evolve. We were created.

 

[InChristAlone]

And there is your answer, because they get little meat. So they are starved of protein, taurine and zinc. The low toxin movement is a meat based diet and that is one of the reason why people thrive.

Yeah that is an obvious answer. Dogs thrive on meat. I can't stand it when pet owners give their dog anything but meat. They are just asking for the dog to have all kinds of health problems. My Mom's dogs all die young. She can't help but feed them cheap treats full of crap.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Oh jeepers Dennis, There are plenty of liver labs in the big VA thread you will be amazed. I enjoyed the liver and Cholesterol panels dropping from 275 total cholesterol to 150, all while eating red meat and no drug intervention!

It’s the fiber and the low fat nature of the diet that lowers cholesterol. Don’t think it’s got much to do with VA restriction.

 

[Izzybelle]

Like I said the more simple explanation is we are not dogs. I really hate the comparison to animals. It goes along the same thought that all mammals come from a single ancestor. No. God created each kind differently. We didn't come from apes, we didn't evolve. We were created.

You are welcome to your conclusions but I do not share them. Ray Peat's work also includes an evolutionary understanding of diet that is crucial to understanding. I like to question and think for myself. I'm not sure how RP's work jives then with this low Vitamin A stuff at ts very essence. Time to move on.

Yeah that is an obvious answer. Dogs thrive on meat. I can't stand it when pet owners give their dog anything but meat. They are just asking for the dog to have all kinds of health problems. My Mom's dogs all die young. She can't help but feed them cheap treats full of crap.

Dogs also eat and metabolize fat and have evolved the capability to metabolize carbohydrates. Dogs need high protein but with that comes more vitamin A, so we're looking at any number of causal possibilities. I looked into a lot of this when I adopted my puppy to begin with. I think smaller dogs tend to have a shorter lifespan. My dog likes applesauce and cooked fruit, and sometimes I put sugar in her food if I haven't got any fruit or if it's beef or something high in iron that I wouldn't want to pair with fruit. She also gets lots of treats but I make sure there's no PUFA in there, only beef fat. And I discovered she loves Mennonite cheese -- the only kind she will eat lone as a snack.

 

[TheDogsDid-It!]

I already said this on another thread, but I'm going to say it again because it seems people don't understand context.

We are not dogs.

Something that is good for a dog doesn't mean it is good for a human. They are obligate carnivores. Humans are not. They process retinol differently than we do. They regularly eat it due to their carnivore diet, we don't.

Cows also seem to process beta carotene differently than we do. They eat a lot of it, we don't.

I wouldn't venture into comparing the biological differences between dog and human; but as a decades long volunteer for a no-kill shelter for animals, I do observe both dog and human seem to be programmed to survive (as well as many if not all lifeforms). It seems the survival mechanism is fear, which prompts action to survive. And when there is little to no hope to survive, things start to deteriorate. Maybe the lost hope comes from not enough resources; injury beyond repair; overwhelming and never ending stress that constantly depletes (just to name a few). Stress of course comes from many things and from many directions. In today's world there is a lot of "fear porn" sending humans into a spiral, and whether that is on purpose or not, it does affect humans if they don't recognize it and from what source and motive behind it.

I would say that 90% of the dogs we take in, are the "all hope is lost" cases. And I can say that, 100% of those dogs survived and either found homes, or they stayed with us; and all lived WAY beyond the original label/catagory they were placed in. Lots of love, a safe environment, proper nutrition...even our worst case PTSD dogs from past abuses, now order us around like we are subhuman and they our master. It is joyful to watch, and the good news is, those things work for humans too. Nothing feels better than love and a safe environment for growth and healing. Like this forum with members willing to help each other with those values being the driver.

 

[InChristAlone]

I wouldn't venture into comparing the biological differences between dog and human; but as a decades long volunteer for a no-kill shelter for animals, I do observe both dog and human seem to be programmed to survive (as well as many if not all lifeforms). It seems the survival mechanism is fear, which prompts action to survive. And when there is little to no hope to survive, things start to deteriorate. Maybe the lost hope comes from not enough resources; injury beyond repair; overwhelming and never ending stress that constantly depletes (just to name a few). Stress of course comes from many things and from many directions. In today's world there is a lot of "fear porn" sending humans into a spiral, and whether that is on purpose or not, it does affect humans if they don't recognize it and from what source and motive behind it.

I would say that 90% of the dogs we take in, are the "all hope is lost" cases. And I can say that, 100% of those dogs survived and either found homes, or they stayed with us; and all lived WAY beyond the original label/catagory they were placed in. Lots of love, a safe environment, proper nutrition...even our worst case PTSD dogs from past abuses, now order us around like we are subhuman and they our master. It is joyful to watch, and the good news is, those things work for humans too. Nothing feels better than love and a safe environment for growth and healing. Like this forum with members willing to help each other with those values being the driver.

Yes hope is a major factor in survival. It's absolutely essential under stress.

I don't know what happened to my Mom's dogs then because they spoiled them. Slept in their bed and everything. I think one of them got poisoned by something, red blood cells destroyed. The other died of diabetes. The next a mixed pit bull is on her way to diabetes as well. She looks like a hippo.

 

[tallglass13]

It’s the fiber and the low fat nature of the diet that lowers cholesterol. Don’t think it’s got much to do with VA restriction.

In Grants book he shows that LDL assist in the transport of VA. When a person is not assaulting their arteries and veins with Retinoic Acids, Less Cholesterol is required for repair.

 

[TheDogsDid-It!]

Yes hope is a major factor in survival. It's absolutely essential under stress.

I don't know what happened to my Mom's dogs then because they spoiled them. Slept in their bed and everything. I think one of them got poisoned by something, red blood cells destroyed. The other died of diabetes. The next a mixed pit bull is on her way to diabetes as well. She looks like a hippo.

LOL! How cute! I'll bet she is the cutest and happiest little hippo, and has no shame with her appearance. We have two with only have 3 working legs, and they have no idea they are different, and have no shame for their looks. Dogs aren't subjected to the brainwashing humans are exposed to for meeting the definition of beauty. The "3-legs" beat the others to dinner too, so handicaps are also viewed differently with dogs. As long as it is a loving and caring environment, and the inevitable arrives for end of life, not all has been lost. It sounds like joy was shared by all in your mom's house. She sounds like a beautiful soul

 

[BRENBAIL]

Poison "vitamin A" can look like it is doing great things by suppressing the symptoms, but in the long run it is doing more damage by allowing the toxins to accumulate. The accumulation effects are the killer which makes "vitamin A" a slow killer that will creep up on you and all of a sudden can hit you with the "vitamin A" cascade hits like Anthony Mawson has written about.

At no other time in history has a low "vitamin A" and low toxin diet/lifestyle been done. Other low toxin diets have been tried, but no other time has this been done that we know of and the results people are seeing have been miraculous. People healing of things that doctors told them they could never heal of like stage 4 kidney disease, liver disease, and type 1 diabetes. That is truly remarkable.

Thanks Charlie! I have some 'scientific' family members who will be hard to convince. Do you have a thread dedicated to the research about the benefits of low Vitamin A, or how Vitamin A is toxic? Even when I was mentioning this to a friend 2 days ago, she was against this because she takes Vitamin A for dry eyes and it helps her. She doesn't want to discontinue Vitamin A. With my PCOS, the researcher I was following for awhile was saying that 'studies confirm that Vitamin A deficiency plays a role in disease of the ovaries'. I am now post-menopausal, but I've been researching PCOS for over 20 years (after trying conventional treatments like Metformin which was horrible for my digestion, Actos which almost caused a stroke, and infertility treatments), and I didn't find anything holistic which helped. Even though I'm menopausal, I know PCOS symptoms are still there, as well as my Hashimoto's (been on the highest dose of thyroid medication but am slowly weaning off). I've come to the conclusion so far that these are mineral deficiencies, possible toxins (so I'm intrigued to this toxic Vitamin A theory), and liver congestion. I couldn't tolerate even 1 month on the traditional Ray Peat diet even though the science looked promising. I do wonder if that is how we should eat, but our world is too toxic to eat that way. I am already making the low toxin lifestyle changes, because it wouldn't hurt to try just as long as I don't blow up like a balloon. I could actually feel my liver bloating on the Ray Peat diet just after 1 month. It was so uncomfortable.

 

[3apples555]

I would say that 90% of the dogs we take in, are the "all hope is lost" cases. And I can say that, 100% of those dogs survived and either found homes, or they stayed with us; and all lived WAY beyond the original label/catagory they were placed in. Lots of love, a safe environment, proper nutrition...even our worst case PTSD dogs from past abuses, now order us around like we are subhuman and they our master. It is joyful to watch, and the good news is, those things work for humans too. Nothing feels better than love and a safe environment for growth and healing. Like this forum with members willing to help each other with those values being the driver.

What a lovely thing to hear.

 

[InChristAlone]

LOL! How cute! I'll bet she is the cutest and happiest little hippo, and has no shame with her appearance. We have two with only have 3 working legs, and they have no idea they are different, and have no shame for their looks. Dogs aren't subjected to the brainwashing humans are exposed to for meeting the definition of beauty. The "3-legs" beat the others to dinner too, so handicaps are also viewed differently with dogs. As long as it is a loving and caring environment, and the inevitable arrives for end of life, not all has been lost. It sounds like joy was shared by all in your mom's house. She sounds like a beautiful soul

I guess I'm a pessimist because I don't see it that way. I see it as my Mom is killing her dog by spoiling her with treats. That's not love. Loving someone is providing the best diet. She did the same thing with me as a child, she let us drink soda everyday and eat junk food from a young age. No boundaries. I wasn't saying the dog is ugly, but it's clear she's very unhealthy and will die young unfortunately. They know this but continue feeding her. Even though my step Dad says "I'm going to kill myself if she dies'. It's not a healthy relationship.