The Long-Winded Digestion Thread

Peata said:

I'm going to take this week off to give my system a rest. And order some bulk amount so I can take more economically than I can from a bottle of capsules. If I experiment again with AC it will be with larger amounts.

How's everyone else doing?

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Peata, did you swallow the capsules whole or open them up and pour them into a glass of water to take the AC? I can't swallow larger capsules so I was pouring mine into a glass every night. What a mess! I ended up buying some loose AC in bulk and should be getting that next week.

So far the low allergen milk diet and AC are keeping my skin super soft. Someone even commented on how soft my elbows are and I hadn't realized it, but they're right! Considering they're one of the more difficult areas on my body to soften and I haven't even used my go to moisturizer, coconut oil, I'm thinking something positive is happening inside my gut. Another plus, the facial rash hasn't returned! :)

Jennifer said:

Peata said:

I'm going to take this week off to give my system a rest. And order some bulk amount so I can take more economically than I can from a bottle of capsules. If I experiment again with AC it will be with larger amounts.

How's everyone else doing?

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Peata, did you swallow the capsules whole or open them up and pour them into a glass of water to take the AC? I can't swallow larger capsules so I was pouring mine into a glass every night. What a mess! I ended up buying some loose AC in bulk and should be getting that next week.

So far the low allergen milk diet and AC are keeping my skin super soft. Someone even commented on how soft my elbows are and I hadn't realized it, but they're right! Considering they're one of the more difficult areas on my body to soften and I haven't even used my go to moisturizer, coconut oil, I'm thinking something positive is happening inside my gut. Another plus, the facial rash hasn't returned! :)

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I swallowed the capsules. I've taken so many things over the years it's nothing to throw back a handful at a time and wash it down. They were regular sized gelatin capsules, not too big.

The weirdest thing that happened (besides the charcoal stool) was last night when I saw black dust waft out my mouth, float right in front of my face. It scared me for just a moment until I realized it was the charcoal - I didn't wash them down with enough water and I had given a tiny burp without realizing it -- and out came the black dust.

Good for you on the soft skin. That made me feel my elbows and they are very soft but I'd just assumed it was the oil I use on my skin. That's great the rash is gone from you.

Peata said:

The weirdest thing that happened (besides the charcoal stool) was last night when I saw black dust waft out my mouth, float right in front of my face. It scared me for just a moment until I realized it was the charcoal - I didn't wash them down with enough water and I had given a tiny burp without realizing it -- and out came the black dust.

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God that made me laugh so hard because the same thing happened to me. After I had poured the capsules out into a glass of water, I mustn't of mixed the two well enough and I choked on the charcoal as I was swallowing and coughed out black dust.

You feeling like a science experiment yet, Peata?

Jennifer said:

Peata said:

The weirdest thing that happened (besides the charcoal stool) was last night when I saw black dust waft out my mouth, float right in front of my face. It scared me for just a moment until I realized it was the charcoal - I didn't wash them down with enough water and I had given a tiny burp without realizing it -- and out came the black dust.

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God that made me laugh so hard because the same thing happened to me. After I had poured the capsules out into a glass of water, I mustn't of mixed the two well enough and I choked on the charcoal as I was swallowing and coughed out black dust.

You feeling like a science experiment yet, Peata?

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For a split second, I feared something was wrong with my lungs... then in another split second I thought I'd had an exorcism unawares.

Yep, always a (mad) science experiment. Looks like I'm not the only one.

OMG!!! You girls are cracking me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So my giant-**** bag of AC slid and fell over on the counter.....TWICE!!! You'd think I would have learned the first time and NOT prop it up while opened. Anyways, you can imagine the plague-like cloud that ensued....I'm thinking of painting my kitchen black.

http://youtu.be/u6d8eKvegLI

There, see if that fixes my vid posting faux-pas....

I learnt how to post a vid....

Thebigpeatowski,

I see your https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-7TRVsArgI and raise you ahttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA

NOW THE AIR I TASTED AND BREATHED HAS TAKEN A TURN.....


http://youtu.be/QV2iYFl5eSk


ALL THE PICTURES HAVE BEEN WASHED IN BLACK, TATTOOED EVERYTHING.

Being from Seattle, I had to add this one.

Ladies, Here's to our gallows humor!!

Now for the pain. After eating honey on the hour 3 times, I broke down and ate a string cheese and then some farmer's cheese. The hunger was too much. Apple juice.

The AC didn't quite get the stomach down altogether after the 2 rounds. Right now it's swelled up a bit more after the cheese, though not at max yet.

Bp, like you, I'm reacting to everything now.

My legs are a bit shaky due to hunger. I haven't had time to get the juicer yet.

I'm feeling desperate.

I'm seeing the doctor tomorrow. I have no idea how I'll explain all this to her. If she says probiotics (just an example), I'll say not allowed. By whom, she'll say. The writings of Dr. Ray Peat, I'll say, which make a lot of sense to me, and by the experience of those who have healed on the forum based on his writings. Ok, she'll say, antibiotics then (I'm just making this up). Yes, Tetracyclines, I'll say.

Now I'm laughing again, and my half-bloated stomach shaking...

Actually, knowing her, she'll run every test on the earth first...

sunmountain said:

Ladies, Here's to our gallows humor!!

Now for the pain. After eating honey on the hour 3 times, I broke down and ate a string cheese and then some farmer's cheese. The hunger was too much. Apple juice.

The AC didn't quite get the stomach down altogether after the 2 rounds. Right now it's swelled up a bit more after the cheese, though not at max yet.

Bp, like you, I'm reacting to everything now.

My legs are a bit shaky due to hunger. I haven't had time to get the juicer yet.

I'm feeling desperate.

I'm seeing the doctor tomorrow. I have no idea how I'll explain all this to her. If she says probiotics (just an example), I'll say not allowed. By whom, she'll say. The writings of Dr. Ray Peat, I'll say, which make a lot of sense to me, and by the experience of those who have healed on the forum based on his writings. Ok, she'll say, antibiotics then (I'm just making this up). Yes, Tetracyclines, I'll say.

Now I'm laughing again, and my half-bloated stomach shaking...

Actually, knowing her, she'll run every test on the earth first...

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sunmountain, I can relate to every single thing you've written here. You have a choice: you can go through the battery of tests and they will most likely tell you that you have IBS, SIBO, food allergies or ALL THREE!!! Alternatively, you can take matters into your own hands...antibiotics work for some. They did not work long-term for me, but they might work for you. Minocycline is available online.

Did the cheese result in diarrhea?

thebigpeatowski said:

sunmountain said:

Ladies, Here's to our gallows humor!!

Now for the pain. After eating honey on the hour 3 times, I broke down and ate a string cheese and then some farmer's cheese. The hunger was too much. Apple juice.

The AC didn't quite get the stomach down altogether after the 2 rounds. Right now it's swelled up a bit more after the cheese, though not at max yet.

Bp, like you, I'm reacting to everything now.

My legs are a bit shaky due to hunger. I haven't had time to get the juicer yet.

I'm feeling desperate.

I'm seeing the doctor tomorrow. I have no idea how I'll explain all this to her. If she says probiotics (just an example), I'll say not allowed. By whom, she'll say. The writings of Dr. Ray Peat, I'll say, which make a lot of sense to me, and by the experience of those who have healed on the forum based on his writings. Ok, she'll say, antibiotics then (I'm just making this up). Yes, Tetracyclines, I'll say.

Now I'm laughing again, and my half-bloated stomach shaking...

Actually, knowing her, she'll run every test on the earth first...

Click to expand...

sunmountain, I can relate to every single thing you've written here. You have a choice: you can go through the battery of tests and they will most likely tell you that you have IBS, SIBO, food allergies or ALL THREE!!! Alternatively, you can take matters into your own hands...antibiotics work for some. They did not work long-term for me, but they might work for you. Minocycline is available online.

Did the cheese result in diarrhea?

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I agree with tbig! You'll probably be told you have IBS, SIBO, food allergies ect., sunmountain. I'm one who didn't have lasting results from antibiotics (Neomycin), but maybe they will work for you.

At this point, is there even one food you don't suffer a reaction from? Say juice by itself or milk by itself or even something non-peaty? You mentioned doing well on beans, I think? If you're okay with a non-peaty food then I would go ahead and eat that. I think it's better to eat what you can tolerate right now than to go hungry. Then once you see your doctor, hopefully she'll be open to antibiotic treatment or you could try tbig's raw garlic protocol.

thebigpeatowski said:

aquaman said:

If you eat 8 tablespoons of supplemental CO per day, you WILL get fat. That's over 100 grams of fat, 900 calories. Just sayin'.

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I agree that's a lot of fat, but maybe she needs it?

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Peat recounts how, when he added coconut oil to his diet, he lost considerable weight himself.

It seems that hypothyroidism for Peat is the result of too much unsaturated fat in the tissues, and he thinks that by consuming saturated fat such as coconut or MCT oil, you can counterbalance the unsaturated fat and increase your metabolism. And Peat even feels that if you can reach a 2:1 ratio of saturated to unsaturated fat in your tissues, you may not need thyroid hormone any longer.

I think I've seen studies posted on the forum claiming that the medium chain triglycerides (MCT's), which make up more than 50% of coconut oil, somehow result in weight loss. So I guess it may depend on individual needs?

Jennifer said:

At this point, is there even one food you don't suffer a reaction from? Say juice by itself or milk by itself or even something non-peaty? You mentioned doing well on beans, I think? If you're okay with a non-peaty food then I would go ahead and eat that. ...

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Ray Peat said:

"US people don't realize how ridiculously degraded their standard of living has become. Nutrition is political economical. The governments tell people to eat beans and bread for a reason. "

"Once the protective barrier-functions of the intestine and liver have been damaged, allergens and many materials with specific biological effects can enter the tissues. The polysaccharide components of connective tissue constitute a major part of our regulatory system for maintaining differentiated cell functioning, and absorbed starches act as “false signals,” with a great capacity for deranging cellular functioning. Several types of research indicate that carrageenan changes cellular function in complex ways, imitating changes seen in cancer, for example.

R.J.V. Pulvertaft found "a close similarity between Burkitt cells and human lymphocytes stimulated by bean extract." He concluded that "…the possibility of a relation between Burkitt's lymphoma and a diet of beans should not be neglected, ..."

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visionofstrength said:

Jennifer said:

At this point, is there even one food you don't suffer a reaction from? Say juice by itself or milk by itself or even something non-peaty? You mentioned doing well on beans, I think? If you're okay with a non-peaty food then I would go ahead and eat that. ...

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Ray Peat said:

"US people don't realize how ridiculously degraded their standard of living has become. Nutrition is political economical. The governments tell people to eat beans and bread for a reason. "

"Once the protective barrier-functions of the intestine and liver have been damaged, allergens and many materials with specific biological effects can enter the tissues. The polysaccharide components of connective tissue constitute a major part of our regulatory system for maintaining differentiated cell functioning, and absorbed starches act as “false signals,” with a great capacity for deranging cellular functioning. Several types of research indicate that carrageenan changes cellular function in complex ways, imitating changes seen in cancer, for example.

R.J.V. Pulvertaft found "a close similarity between Burkitt cells and human lymphocytes stimulated by bean extract." He concluded that "…the possibility of a relation between Burkitt's lymphoma and a diet of beans should not be neglected, ..."

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Thank you for the Peat perspective, vision! :)

Ha ha! I'm not surprised my answer to sunmountain isn't well received on a Ray Peat forum, but here was my thought process on the issue.

*saying all this in a friendly tone*

I understand the possible damaging affects of beans, but I also understand that many people do fine on them and I can't ignore that. I also can't see a person going hungry because all the "safe" foods are causing an issue. This of course is not to say sunmountain tolerates beans. I honestly can't remember exactly if that was one of the foods she said she could digest well before Peating. And I should mention, I'm talking about properly prepared beans. To me, studies based on isolated carrageenan is a whole other animal.

I just thought that it would be better for sunmountain to, as a temporary measure, eat what is currently tolerable until the true cause of indigestion is figured out. Usually, I would say stay clear of beans if you have digestive issues, but if a person finds that they are one of the only foods they can digest without issues, then who am I to tell them their body is wrong? I believe context matters and I hate to think sunmountain is going hungry trying to stick to Peaty foods. You know me...I don't like the hunger game! :)

Could the beans make things worse? Yes! Could they make things better by providing much needed fuel to build and repair? Yes! It's a tough call!

Okay, I'll shut up now!

sunmountain said:

Do we have any recommendations for an inexpensive juicer on the forum? It looks like I can't escape the potato pudding...

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Hi sm! Just want to to note that Peat feels the potato juice protein is really important for someone like you, with severe gut distress. What's more, over the last several years a number of members here have found it to be literally the only thing that relieves many of the same symptoms you say you have. Not thyroid, not gelatin, not anything but potato juice protein.

You can read about it in the thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=428&hilit=centrifugal+juicer

I think in that thread Charlie mentions a juicer that has good reviews on Amazon.

visionofstrength said:

And Peat even feels that if you can reach a 2:1 ratio of saturated to unsaturated fat in your tissues, you may not need thyroid hormone any longer.

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Do you remember the source of this? Looks interesting...

Thanks, Bp, Jennifer, VoS!

First, my doc works WITH me. She trained with Andrew Weil (we know he's wrong about fish oil, among other things, but more importantly, she learned to let patients like myself who want to lead, lead). She also does hypnotherapy one day a week. She is the kindest, most competent doc I've ever met.

When I called in to her nurse that I wanted cypro for insomnia, she called it in, no questions asked. So if I want mino, she'll most likely give it to me. She also knows that I have been extremely conservative about pharmaceutical meds in the past (loosened up since Peat). And that I have been trying a variety of natural treatments. She is not afraid to go against the system to help a patient, and she gives a lot of time. And she hasn't been taking new patients for a long time.

With that in place. I had been meaning to see her anyhow at some point to get thyroid and other tests done. Here are the tests I'm thinking of asking her:
serum calcium, glucose, albumin, sodium, phosphate, PTH, vitamin D3, prolactin, cortisol, adrenalin, serotonin, FFA, cholesterol, lactic acid, vit A, thyroid, total triglyceride, transferrin saturation index, ferritin, Liver ALT and AST
I don't even know what many of these are. I just got them off various posts. If any of you have recommendations, please let me know.

I don't plan to be scared by IBS, seebo, food allergies (I'm definitely not getting allergy testing). My mother was diagnosed IBS since a long time. I am tending toward tetracycline, though I don't know enough about it. I just ran into a mino post by charlie (20 pages) that I plan to wade through. I did read it's important to take tetra's with a lot of sugar to avoid some symptoms.

That said, I should also add that I haven't yet tried aspirin and flowers of sulpher. I did try Bp's garlic protocol and stuck it 3 days, and then gave up because it was so awful. I might take some garlic tonight.

Regarding food, well, I've eaten more string cheese, farmer cheese, apple juice, a cup of greek yogurt. So eating small amounts continuously. Noticed more swelling after greek yogurt, but that may be due to quantity. Have tried to stick to dairy today, avoiding starch and fiber (as best as I can understand those).

When I started Peating, Tara gave me lots of good advice. Because I came from a LC background, I understood her to say it was more important at first to get the calories in than worry about being strict on peating. I was at 1300 calories when I started Peating; now most days I'm well above 2000 (yesterday and today excluded).

I also see the beauty of VoS's plan -- its simplicity -- based on Peat's simplified diet. That's why I tried AC yesterday and today, and tried sticking to honey today, but hunger got the better of me. It could be that the AC quantity was not enough -- 40 capsules is still only 11.2g -- hardly half a cup!

I still haven't gotten the juicer. I'm off work tomorrow so will try to go then, if not tonight to Target and get whatever centrifuge they have. The hard part is figuring out all this while working and single parenting a college-bound daughter.

I might get the mino from the doc tomorrow, but I'm not clear about which direction right now. First try aspirin and sulpher? Or just mino? As I said, I haven't had antibiotics since forever, so it might work.

REgarding which foods are setting me off right now, I can't seem to tell. That's because I didn't have a flat stomach to start with -- the 2 rounds of AC didn't do what they were supposed to. So with already some swelling, it's hard to say.

Yes, I grew up eating lentils an beans, and probably have 50 years worth of PUFA stored in me. Not good. Right now, I think my gut has gotten into a "reaction mode" kind of thing where anything sets it off. Like you know when someone scratches their eye with a contact lens, and you have to use steroid drops to stop the cycle of irritation -- in layman terms, this is what it feels like is happening.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING SO SUPPORTIVE AND A PART OF THIS UNCOMFORTABLE AND AMAZING JOURNEY!!! I feel really connected to all of you.

visionofstrength said:

Peat recounts how, when he added coconut oil to his diet, he lost considerable weight himself.

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This quote is too often used, and out of context. On a radio interview, he says that a Hypo person should have 3 teaspoons of coconut oil per day maximum to avoid getting fat.

*Edit - it's on one of the Herb Doctors' shows, and I'll be on the lookout for the exact show and quote over the next few weeks as I listen again to the shows. I have it on a notepad note, but not a direct quote and doesn't say which show.

I went to target and got a juicer, then to Giant and picked up 2 bags organic russet potatoes. Came home and peeled and juiced. Let it stand. Skimmed off the foam and starch at top. Then carefully poured juice into another bowl.

Holy moly! The starch at the bottom was stuck to the bowl like a rock. Or glue. Or something. Got rid of it.

The pure juice in the other bowl. I covered it with plastic wrap and put in fridge for tomorrow.

Then I ate 11.2 g of charcoal again. This time I didn't take CO...I'll take cascara in the morning and hope for the best.

Now I'm going to bed.

Tomorrow it's sugar and RPPS for me.

If I remember right, I'm supposed to "scramble" it in CO in a pan, right? This is the part I'm less sure of, so if anyone has any tips, please let me know. I read a thread about the importance of 45 min cooking, but wouldn't it be burned by then? Any tips on cooking, gratefully accepted.

Thanks!

PS - Getting over the mental block was the hardest part. The juicing was really easy.