The Long-Winded Digestion Thread

[Jennifer]

Um, I don't want to try that AT ALL!!! So nevermind then, I guess I don't need to know my fat storage ratios.

Just think...you could have them "aspirate" unwanted fat from other regions while they're at it! That'll take care of the PUFA to Saturated fat issue.

 

[sunmountain]

Did RPPS, honey, apple juice, and a couple of string cheese today. Not getting enough cals, I know, so feeling very tired. Muscles are aching. I put in too much salt in the soup. By evening, the bitterness is very pronounced, so have to chase it with apple juice.

I went to giant again and got "baby gold" potatoes. The fingerlings did not look fresh. The baby golds are bigger than fingerlings, so I did peel them. Today the peeling took a long time. The starch amount seems the same as in the russets. I hope it tastes better. This soup is for tomorrow.

My stomach is still swollen, though less. It's more of a "soft" swelling, as opposed to the "hard" swelling, which is maximum stretch.

I'm dreaming of cold watermelon, but not allowed today. Have to drink apple juice in small amounts or I swell up.

Saw the doc. She heard my story. Said to continue RPPS and introduce a new food on third day. Will go back in a few weeks for physical and labs. She wants to read RP; I said I'd send her a link.

Have to go to work tomorrow and to court for a parking ticket. Feeling very tired.

 

[tara]

I haven't tried the PPS yet - my attempt with a blender was pretty useless, but then I don't have a 2 tonne press to squeeze out the juice with.
If you see any green in the skin or flesh, cut it off with a good margin, and discard. I think the green indicates poison; it definitely tastes bitter - disgusting.

 

[sunmountain]

I broke down and just had a few T HG ice-cream. Aaaaaaahhh!!!

Hope I don't pay for it. My stomach hasn't swelled up any more than it is.

 

[tara]

At this point, is there even one food you don't suffer a reaction from? Say juice by itself or milk by itself or even something non-peaty? You mentioned doing well on beans, I think? If you're okay with a non-peaty food then I would go ahead and eat that. ...

"US people don't realize how ridiculously degraded their standard of living has become. Nutrition is political economical. The governments tell people to eat beans and bread for a reason. "

"Once the protective barrier-functions of the intestine and liver have been damaged, allergens and many materials with specific biological effects can enter the tissues. The polysaccharide components of connective tissue constitute a major part of our regulatory system for maintaining differentiated cell functioning, and absorbed starches act as “false signals,” with a great capacity for deranging cellular functioning. Several types of research indicate that carrageenan changes cellular function in complex ways, imitating changes seen in cancer, for example.

R.J.V. Pulvertaft found "a close similarity between Burkitt cells and human lymphocytes stimulated by bean extract." He concluded that "…the possibility of a relation between Burkitt's lymphoma and a diet of beans should not be neglected, ..."

Thank you for the Peat perspective, vision! :)

Ha ha! I'm not surprised my answer to sunmountain isn't well received on a Ray Peat forum, but here was my thought process on the issue.

*saying all this in a friendly tone*

I understand the possible damaging affects of beans, but I also understand that many people do fine on them and I can't ignore that. I also can't see a person going hungry because all the "safe" foods are causing an issue. This of course is not to say sunmountain tolerates beans. I honestly can't remember exactly if that was one of the foods she said she could digest well before Peating. And I should mention, I'm talking about properly prepared beans. To me, studies based on isolated carrageenan is a whole other animal.

I just thought that it would be better for sunmountain to, as a temporary measure, eat what is currently tolerable until the true cause of indigestion is figured out. Usually, I would say stay clear of beans if you have digestive issues, but if a person finds that they are one of the only foods they can digest without issues, then who am I to tell them their body is wrong? I believe context matters and I hate to think sunmountain is going hungry trying to stick to Peaty foods. You know me...I don't like the hunger game! :)

Could the beans make things worse? Yes! Could they make things better by providing much needed fuel to build and repair? Yes! It's a tough call!

Okay, I'll shut up now!

I agree with Jennifer, though I might be going off-topic.

Although Peat has given a lot of useful information and suggestions about the benefits of some foods, and the possible damage caused by components of some foods (or non-foods), I think his key message is to eat for a good metabolism, preferably of things you like to eat.

What that looks like will be different for different people. Most foods have some advantages and some disadvantages in general terms, but also may have a different balance between providing useful nutrition and metabolic burden, depending on the context - the state of each of us at a particular time. For example, I think Jenn rebuilt her health largely out of potatoes when nothing else would digest well (contradict me if I'm wrong, Jenn :) ), but for some people either the starch or the solanine is too much for their systems, and fruit and milk work better, or rice and meat, or whatever.

I don't think there is much doubt that starvation is a metabolic burden that usually leads to lowered metabolism. Food that doesn't get digested is no better than starvation. You can't avoid every food that might possibly cause a problem for some people. Sure, it's useful to know that PUFAs are mostly a burden, and that basing a diet on beans, wheat, oily fish and raw greens in the mistaken belief that they are always 'healthy' food may not result in the best possible outcome. But if milk, juice, gelatine, coffee, coconut oil, liver etc seem to cause obvious severe immediate problems, and other foods seem to result in better digestion, than that's worth quite a lot. Also, it's often hard to get access to ideal foods (eg affordable ripe tropical fruit - [is there a salivating smiley?]), and we have to make choices amongst imperfect options.

tl;dr: Eating for high metabolism necessarily requires eating. I don't think Jennifer's suggestions contradict Peat's ideas. I think it is usually better to eat something you can digest than either to keep forcing food that is obviously not working just because the theory says it should work or, worse still, to not eat because all foods have downsides.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Apple juice causes reflux and bloating in me. I know Ray Peat talked about the bad apples used for it and pectin content.

 

[Peata]

I took my last AC pills on Sat. night and by yesterday (Mon) afternoon I had a bout of diarrhea. I bought more AC capsules on the way home last night and took 4 before bed. I don't know when I'll get around to ordering bulk AC. Also I decided not to do the poultice, at least not for a while.

 

[sunmountain]

All, This morning I'm feeling somewhat dizzy and muscle achey. But right now, while at work, I began to smell an "ammonia" type smell...at first, I thought something was going on outside my office, but then realized I was smelling it as I was talking on the phone. I remember reading something about keto and this smell, but I don't understand what is going on, or how I can fix it. I don't like it, ugh!

Anyone????

 

[Dutchie]

This is kind of related to ths thread as it's about 'die-off','Candida&parasite killing" etc.
The article appeared on my FB today and I think it has some interesting thougths about fungal eliminating protocols,natural anti-fungal uses and how these die-off symptoms that get praised as something good in those scenes,may actually not be a good sign.

http://blog.probacto.com/candida-overgr ... tifungals/

 

[sunmountain]

hi Dutchie,

I'm not sure my symptoms are Herxeimer. I tend to think it might be low or high blood sugar related, and fat burning instead of glucose burning because my liver might not be doing its job. My doc is going to run some labs today, and then I'll know more.

Thanks

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi sunmountain...I can't recall, are you getting enough protein? I am close to your height and age (5'2" and 48 years old) and I feel best with 100 grams of protein a day and some days even MORE, it really makes my liver so much happier!

 

[Peata]

I took my last AC pills on Sat. night and by yesterday (Mon) afternoon I had a bout of diarrhea. I bought more AC capsules on the way home last night and took 4 before bed. I don't know when I'll get around to ordering bulk AC. Also I decided not to do the poultice, at least not for a while.

More diarrhea I am back to taking AC at least 3 x day. 4 pills each time until this gets settled again.

Does anyone know how to tell if you produce too much stomach acid or not enough?

 

[Jennifer]

I took my last AC pills on Sat. night and by yesterday (Mon) afternoon I had a bout of diarrhea. I bought more AC capsules on the way home last night and took 4 before bed. I don't know when I'll get around to ordering bulk AC. Also I decided not to do the poultice, at least not for a while.

More diarrhea I am back to taking AC at least 3 x day. 4 pills each time until this gets settled again.

Does anyone know how to tell if you produce too much stomach acid or not enough?

The only way I've been able to tell is through my urine pH. Though I'll say, the diarrhea is a red flag to me that you're running more on the acidic side.

I went with my mom to her doctor's appointment today. She likes me to go in with her because she has a hard time understanding much of what Dr. Oteri says. Anyhow, I told Dr. Oteri that I was having my mom try the activated charcoal and her response was ..."Oh yes! That's a great idea! I completely forgot about activated charcoal." So it looks our experiment with AC isn't so crazy! :)

I also asked her about the potato protein soup (she knew all about it) and distilled aloe vera juice and she said to give the latter one a try. So I'm going to order some of the George's always active distilled aloe juice for both of us to take. She was doing great with the Glutagenics, but she ran out of it about a week ago and her diarrhea had started back up again. She ordered more so she'll be taking that with the aloe juice and AC.

I have to tell you guys what I saw today because I just about died of laughter. While we were driving to the doctors, we saw a giant peanut automobile. It had some pretty incredible detail to it. It actually looked real! The shell had the grooves and everything. My first thought was..."anyone with a peanut allergy would be wetting their pants right about now!" It topped even the Smart car for the laugh factor. It was following us and all I could think of was death by PUFA! I wish I had a camera with me because it would SO be my new avatar!

Edit: I found a picture of what the peanut automobile looked like.
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/ ... 0af4c1.jpg

 

[sunmountain]

A peatian nightmare...being chased by a giant peanut! :)

Bp, I think it might have been too much protein that caused the acetone breath. Yeah, acetone, not ammonia, lol!

Here's what might have happened: I had a over a cup of RPPS at breakfast and another around noon. I had mixed in green can gelatin into the soup, thinking to increase calories slowly, and fairly sure I could tolerate gelatin. Also had an egg at breakfast cuz I feel hungry with liquid only. I had some sugar, but probably not nearly enough for the amount of protein I ate.

All that protein might have driven blood sugar low, maybe very low, and the body went into ketosis, burning fat for energy. Not sure if this is scientific enough...just a guess based on reading about ketosis on the internet. Did labs today, so will know more in a day or two.

So whether because I've been eating other things all along, my stomach is still bloated. Sad to say. I couldn't do the RPPS diet on its own because a liquid diet doesn't satisfy my hunger. I would get too hungry and pop a string cheese or ice cream. Meanwhile I've been undereating, which is producing muscle aches and fatigue. I think I'm ready to give up on it, and just start eating, and ask the doc for antibiotics.

 

[sunmountain]

AND I'm having diarrhea tonight. Sigh.

 

[SQu]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place for this question about AC. It's on a few threads but mostly on this, it seems. Suspecting that CO2 and endotoxin issues are probably the two pillars of my problems, and having just bought a kilo of the stuff, I'm thinking of dosing a cup in the evenings, as per some of the comments re the studies suggesting a cup. I thought of starting with a teaspoon of flowers of sulphur today, then a cup of AC at night for a few days or until something starts to improve. More coconut oil to try and counter the constipating effect. My symptoms are mostly estrogen (PMS), cortisol (insomnia, belly fat) and hypothyroid (many symptoms) in spite of taking thyroid as much as I can before my pulse goes too high. I'm just not improving or getting to the root of the problem with all the diet things I'm doing (for a year now). Digestion itself not a problem beyond tendency to constipation (hypo). I did have bloating and a feeling of tight swollen abdomen for some time in the beginning but it's much better now. I thought of doing this because I like AC as it usually makes me feel a bit better almost immediately but the effects do not last.

 

[Peata]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place for this question about AC. It's on a few threads but mostly on this, it seems. Suspecting that CO2 and endotoxin issues are probably the two pillars of my problems, and having just bought a kilo of the stuff, I'm thinking of dosing a cup in the evenings, as per some of the comments re the studies suggesting a cup. I thought of starting with a teaspoon of flowers of sulphur today, then a cup of AC at night for a few days or until something starts to improve. More coconut oil to try and counter the constipating effect. My symptoms are mostly estrogen (PMS), cortisol (insomnia, belly fat) and hypothyroid (many symptoms) in spite of taking thyroid as much as I can before my pulse goes too high. I'm just not improving or getting to the root of the problem with all the diet things I'm doing (for a year now). Digestion itself not a problem beyond tendency to constipation (hypo). I did have bloating and a feeling of tight swollen abdomen for some time in the beginning but it's much better now. I thought of doing this because I like AC as it usually makes me feel a bit better almost immediately but the effects do not last.

I missed your question about AC. Did AC help your bloating/swollen abdomen, or did that go away with something else?

 

[Peata]

I took my last AC pills on Sat. night and by yesterday (Mon) afternoon I had a bout of diarrhea. I bought more AC capsules on the way home last night and took 4 before bed. I don't know when I'll get around to ordering bulk AC. Also I decided not to do the poultice, at least not for a while.

More diarrhea I am back to taking AC at least 3 x day. 4 pills each time until this gets settled again.

Does anyone know how to tell if you produce too much stomach acid or not enough?

The only way I've been able to tell is through my urine pH. Though I'll say, the diarrhea is a red flag to me that you're running more on the acidic side.

I went with my mom to her doctor's appointment today. She likes me to go in with her because she has a hard time understanding much of what Dr. Oteri says. Anyhow, I told Dr. Oteri that I was having my mom try the activated charcoal and her response was ..."Oh yes! That's a great idea! I completely forgot about activated charcoal." So it looks our experiment with AC isn't so crazy! :)

I also asked her about the potato protein soup (she knew all about it) and distilled aloe vera juice and she said to give the latter one a try. So I'm going to order some of the George's always active distilled aloe juice for both of us to take. She was doing great with the Glutagenics, but she ran out of it about a week ago and her diarrhea had started back up again. She ordered more so she'll be taking that with the aloe juice and AC.

I have to tell you guys what I saw today because I just about died of laughter. While we were driving to the doctors, we saw a giant peanut automobile. It had some pretty incredible detail to it. It actually looked real! The shell had the grooves and everything. My first thought was..."anyone with a peanut allergy would be wetting their pants right about now!" It topped even the Smart car for the laugh factor. It was following us and all I could think of was death by PUFA! I wish I had a camera with me because it would SO be my new avatar!

Edit: I found a picture of what the peanut automobile looked like.
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/ ... 0af4c1.jpg

Maybe that's why an Apple cider vinegar drink or baking soda make my tummy feel better if taken around certain meals, it's neutralizing acid.

Glad your doc approves of the AC. Hope your Mom gets her issues sorted out again. I saw aloe at Walmart but I think it needs to be a certain brand, doesn't it. I have an aloe plant in my kitchen in case of burns, but the plant isn't that big - I would eat the whole thing relatively fast if I were consuming it for my diarrhea, and I would hate to destroy the plant.

Wow, that's some car. I guess a Peat car would be an Orange-mobile or Carrot-mobile.

 

[visionofstrength]

...Suspecting that CO2 and endotoxin issues are probably the two pillars of my problems, and having just bought a kilo of the stuff, I'm thinking of dosing a cup in the evenings, as per some of the comments re the studies suggesting a cup. ... More coconut oil to try and counter the constipating effect. ...

Yes, sueq, based on what I've been able to find in Peat's writings, it seems this is a good program for anyone.

Large enough doses of charcoal will eventually give you a clean gut, and Peat quotes a study showing that coconut oil "completely abolished responses to endotoxins." Peat also suggests that it's best to take a small amount of coconut oil often throughout the day.

I've been experimenting with very large doses of charcoal and frequent doses of coconut oil every two hours and have felt only good effects.

I've been trying to find a simple, practical Peat solution that anybody can do, and so far, I think you may have hit on it: large enough doses of charcoal and frequent enough doses of coconut oil. I guess, you may want to add to that some casein from nonfat milk or cheese, where I suspect that casein would be easily digested, once you have, as Peat quotes above, "completely abolished responses to endotoxin."

 

[Jennifer]

Maybe that's why an Apple cider vinegar drink or baking soda make my tummy feel better if taken around certain meals, it's neutralizing acid.

Glad your doc approves of the AC. Hope your Mom gets her issues sorted out again. I saw aloe at Walmart but I think it needs to be a certain brand, doesn't it. I have an aloe plant in my kitchen in case of burns, but the plant isn't that big - I would eat the whole thing relatively fast if I were consuming it for my diarrhea, and I would hate to destroy the plant.

Wow, that's some car. I guess a Peat car would be an Orange-mobile or Carrot-mobile.

Hmm...well, baking soda would neutralize acid by raising your pH, but the apple cider vinegar drink would actually make you more acidic. Now, if you didn't produce enough stomach acid to begin with, taking the ACV drink with meals will give you an acidic medium to help digest your foods. At least, that's how it works in RBTI.

I know Jenn mentioned getting the Aloe juice at Walmart. Umm...this brand I think:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Fruit-Of-The- ... l/10314798

Wilfrid recommended this brand which I'll be ordering:

http://www.vitacost.com/georges-always- ... -128-fl-oz

Ha ha...yeah, a Peat car could be an orange-mobile or even a milk jug-mobile.

Funny thing is, right when we get on the highway, there's this brick building to the right that has a huge pencil sticking out of the corner of it and meanwhile I see that peanut-mobile and I thought it hysterical. I felt like I was in storyland or something. :)