Boiled Potatoes - Why?

[Apple]

What exactly is "the main issue" you speak of? Is this a semantics thing? Are we speaking of two entirely different things? I'm referring to mitochondrial oxidative metabolism going awry without thiamine that is needed as a co-enzyme in the process for several steps. Without thiamine, oxidative metabolism gets derailed which causes lactic acid to be made as the end product instead of ATP+carbon dioxide. I'm talking about systemic lactic acidosis. I'm not talking about the thiamine that gets made in the gut by some bacteria that hopefully reside there.

Malnutrition can cause thiamine deficiency. Thiamine deficiency has been associated with lactic acidosis. People suffering from SBS, abnormal gut flora and/or malabsorption syndromes are at increased risk for thiamine deficiency. This deficiency, when paired with the elevated lactate production from abnormal gut flora, may lead to large amounts of excess lactate that cannot be effectively metabolized.

I'm just wondering why you haven't fixed your thiamine deficiency so far?

 

[mostlylurking]

I'm just wondering why you haven't fixed your thiamine deficiency so far?

I've got mercury poisoning. Mercury uses up/destroys thiamine. Thiamine helps with mercury poisoning symptoms. The jury's still out on whether or not thiamine actually chelates mercury out of the body. Apparently, thiamine does chelate lead out, which I was diagnosed as also having in 2014. I'm a lot better now but fear return of symptoms as my mercury load was/is pretty high. I've been taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl for the past 3 years and have experienced massive health improvements.
see here:

Cell damage through pentose phosphate pathway in fetus fibroblast cells exposed to methyl mercury - PubMed

Methylmercury (MeHg) is a global pollutant that causes malformations. There has been no direct evidence for the effect of MeHg on pentose phosphate pathway (PPP). In embryonic development, PPP is much more active. This pathway produces ribose for DNA/RNA production. It is possible that one of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Malnutrition can cause thiamine deficiency. Thiamine deficiency has been associated with lactic acidosis. People suffering from SBS, abnormal gut flora and/or malabsorption syndromes are at increased risk for thiamine deficiency. This deficiency, when paired with the elevated lactate production from abnormal gut flora, may lead to large amounts of excess lactate that cannot be effectively metabolized.

In addition to the above, people with thiamine deficiency are at greater risk for leaky gut and SIBO. The tight junctions needed to keep the intestinal integrity intact require thiamine. Thiamine is required for stomach acid creation so digestion is impaired in a thiamine deficiency; this results in unfortunate bacterial overgrowth in the intestine. Thiamine deficiency can cause paralysis of the peristalsis action of the intestine resulting in very slow transit time which give bacteria more time to flourish. The liver requires thiamine so in a thiamine deficiency bile is diminished. The pancreas requires thiamine to do its work so in a thiamine deficiency pancreatic enzymes are diminished.

Thiamine deficiency causes lactic acidosis in all the cells all over the body due to dysfunction of oxidative metabolism that happens in all cells' mitochondria. This would include the endothelial cells lining the intestine. If the endothelial cells lose their tight junctions, additional lactic acid that is created in the gut by bacteria can also get into the blood stream.

Many things cause thiamine deficiency in addition to malnutrition.

A Disease Of Modern Civilization Threatens Eradication Of All Life On Planet Earth While World Leaders Are Distracted By The Contrived Crises Of The COVID/Great Reset

 

[TNT]

I'm taking 1 gram of thiamine hcl 2Xday. Higher doses of thiamine hcl are required because it has a poor absorption rate through the intestinal wall whereas TTFD thiamine gets into the bloodstream easily. My husband takes 100mg of TTFD thiamine 2Xday, which works for him.

Any thoughts about thiamine moninitrate? That's what I have on hand. I'm gonna try increasing to 1g 2x/day, but I don't know if it has to be thiamine HCl.

 

[mostlylurking]

Any thoughts about thiamine moninitrate? That's what I have on hand. I'm gonna try increasing to 1g 2x/day, but I don't know if it has to be thiamine HCl.

Thiamine mononitrate is known to cause kidney damage. I wouldn't chance taking it in large doses. I have taken it in the sublingual form which is considered safe because it is such a small dose (100mg). Get yourself some thiamine hcl; it is inexpensive and has a good safety record.

 

[aniciete]

I've got mercury poisoning. Mercury uses up/destroys thiamine. Thiamine helps with mercury poisoning symptoms. The jury's still out on whether or not thiamine actually chelates mercury out of the body. Apparently, thiamine does chelate lead out, which I was diagnosed as also having in 2014. I'm a lot better now but fear return of symptoms as my mercury load was/is pretty high. I've been taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl for the past 3 years and have experienced massive health improvements.
see here:

Cell damage through pentose phosphate pathway in fetus fibroblast cells exposed to methyl mercury - PubMed

Methylmercury (MeHg) is a global pollutant that causes malformations. There has been no direct evidence for the effect of MeHg on pentose phosphate pathway (PPP). In embryonic development, PPP is much more active. This pathway produces ribose for DNA/RNA production. It is possible that one of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In addition to the above, people with thiamine deficiency are at greater risk for leaky gut and SIBO. The tight junctions needed to keep the intestinal integrity intact require thiamine. Thiamine is required for stomach acid creation so digestion is impaired in a thiamine deficiency; this results in unfortunate bacterial overgrowth in the intestine. Thiamine deficiency can cause paralysis of the peristalsis action of the intestine resulting in very slow transit time which give bacteria more time to flourish. The liver requires thiamine so in a thiamine deficiency bile is diminished. The pancreas requires thiamine to do its work so in a thiamine deficiency pancreatic enzymes are diminished.

Thiamine deficiency causes lactic acidosis in all the cells all over the body due to dysfunction of oxidative metabolism that happens in all cells' mitochondria. This would include the endothelial cells lining the intestine. If the endothelial cells lose their tight junctions, additional lactic acid that is created in the gut by bacteria can also get into the blood stream.

Many things cause thiamine deficiency in addition to malnutrition.

A Disease Of Modern Civilization Threatens Eradication Of All Life On Planet Earth While World Leaders Are Distracted By The Contrived Crises Of The COVID/Great Reset

How long should it take to start seeing improvements with digestion and stomach acid with high dose b1?

 

[mostlylurking]

How long should it take to start seeing improvements with digestion and stomach acid with high dose b1?

I can tell you what my experience was, yours may be different.

I was borderline deficient in thiamine because of my heavy metal poisoning, but I didn't know it. In 2020, after following Ray Peat's wisdom for 5 years and in borderline good shape, I got a urinary tract infection. I was prescribed several different antibiotics over the span of 3 months. One of them was Bactrim. It blocked my thiamine function. It took a few weeks for my health to really get bad which it did September of 2020. I was really sick and getting worse daily. I hurt all over. I was pooping little squiggles because my intestines were so swollen and I had developed a tremor in my right hand. I started taking thiamine hcl (with water, not juice) around Oct.1, 2020; 300mg, 2Xday. After the first dose, within 45 minutes, all my inflammatory pain disappeared, my head cleared, and my temperature went up a full degree to normal. So I continued to take thiamine hcl 2Xday and increased the dose each time I noticed the improving effects diminishing. In January of 2021, I was taking 750mg 2Xday of thiamine hcl which equals to 1500mg/day. I was better but I was still pooping squiggles and I still had swallowing difficulty.

I was getting concerned about how much thiamine hcl I was taking and I was worried that if I increased it again negative things might happen. So I searched on line and found Dr. Costantini's website. According to Dr. Costantini's protocol, my optimum dose of thiamine hcl taken orally should be 1 gram, 2Xday. So on Feb1, 2021, I increased my dose to that recommended optimum dose. Within 2 days, my digestive tract normalized and I had 2 massive poops (not little squiggles). Peristalsis had returned, inflammatory swelling had resolved. For the first time in years I craved beef steak and so I bought some, cooked it, and ate it and could swallow it without it getting stuck in my throat. My stomach acid had normalized and I had no digestive problems dealing with the steak. I continued to experience amazing improvements on the high dose thiamine hcl for about 6 months and by then my health was (and still is) better than it has been for decades.

I understand now that I had developed Wernecke's Encephalopathy fall of 2020 and if I had had a good doctor perhaps they would have diagnosed me correctly (doubtful) and given me high dose thiamine by injections and my recovery might have been faster. But I didn't have a doctor and the lunatic urologist had wanted to put me in the hospital and run a scope up me to have a look see at my kidneys (I declined) so I wasn't inclined to go down the road with another doctor. I'm in a small town; not a lot of doctors to choose from. Thiamine deficiency is not on many doctors' radar.

During the 4 months that I was increasing my thiamine hcl dose, I researched thiamine a lot. I learned that it's a good idea to also supplement with magnesium, riboflavin, niacinamide, and potassium too. I use orange juice to provide the potassium; I supplement the others + a few more things.

 

[GTW]

In populations with high fish consumption when the selenium and mercury content were similar there was no mercury toxicity. In fact mercury toxicity is largely the effect of mercury destruction of selenoproteins and antioxidants like glutathione.
In one case study a patient with severe mercury poisoning, near death, recovered with daily selenium (500 mg?) and NAC.

 

[mostlylurking]

In populations with high fish consumption when the selenium and mercury content were similar there was no mercury toxicity. In fact mercury toxicity is largely the effect of mercury destruction of selenoproteins and antioxidants like glutathione.
In one case study a patient with severe mercury poisoning, near death, recovered with daily selenium (500 mg?) and NAC.

Interesting. I do supplement with selenium, but it's a tiny dose, 200mcg/day. I do think it helps.

My glutathione level was very low for many years. Taking high dose thiamine hcl has resulted in my glutathione increasing to the normal range.

Mercury destroys/bonds to thiamine, causing deficiency. Supplementation with thiamine protects the body from mercury.

Cell damage through pentose phosphate pathway in fetus fibroblast cells exposed to methyl mercury - PubMed

Methylmercury (MeHg) is a global pollutant that causes malformations. There has been no direct evidence for the effect of MeHg on pentose phosphate pathway (PPP). In embryonic development, PPP is much more active. This pathway produces ribose for DNA/RNA production. It is possible that one of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Apple]

In populations with high fish consumption when the selenium and mercury content were similar there was no mercury toxicity. In fact mercury toxicity is largely the effect of mercury destruction of selenoproteins and antioxidants like glutathione.
In one case study a patient with severe mercury poisoning, near death, recovered with daily selenium (500 mg?) and NAC.

yeah, that's interesting study on importance of Se

selenium 500 mcg/day and N-acetylcysteine (NAC) 50 mg/kg/day
Conclusion:
This is a case of severe elemental mercury poisoning
unchanged by chelation who later achieved significant
improvement temporally related to selenium and NAC
supplementation. Daily large doses of selenium for eight
months did not result in elevated serum selenium,
suggesting a significant selenium deficit or potential
sequestration of Se as an inert Hg:Se complex

 

[GTW]

yeah, that's interesting study on importance of Se

selenium 500 mcg/day and N-acetylcysteine (NAC) 50 mg/kg/day
Conclusion:
This is a case of severe elemental mercury poisoning
unchanged by chelation who later achieved significant
improvement temporally related to selenium and NAC
supplementation. Daily large doses of selenium for eight
months did not result in elevated serum selenium,
suggesting a significant selenium deficit or potential
sequestration of Se as an inert Hg:Se complex

My mistake! Forgive me. Mcg, not mg selenium.
Because excess selenium cancels mercury it's less toxic when there's mercury. But 500 mg dose probably toxic in any case.

 

[mostlylurking]

yeah, that's interesting study on importance of Se

selenium 500 mcg/day and N-acetylcysteine (NAC) 50 mg/kg/day
Conclusion:
This is a case of severe elemental mercury poisoning
unchanged by chelation who later achieved significant
improvement temporally related to selenium and NAC
supplementation. Daily large doses of selenium for eight
months did not result in elevated serum selenium,
suggesting a significant selenium deficit or potential
sequestration of Se as an inert Hg:Se complex

Thank you for the link, the article is very helpful to me. I was chelated with DMSA (20 IV treatments) around 2005. It was not helpful.

I take hope from the following reference following the article, pdf download:
25] Li YF, Dong Z, Chen C, et al. Organic selenium supplementation
increases mercury excretion and decreases
oxidative damage in long-term mercury-exposed residents
from Wanshan China. Environ Sci Technol.

 

[hierundjetzt]

I can tell you what my experience was, yours may be different.

I was borderline deficient in thiamine because of my heavy metal poisoning, but I didn't know it. In 2020, after following Ray Peat's wisdom for 5 years and in borderline good shape, I got a urinary tract infection. I was prescribed several different antibiotics over the span of 3 months. One of them was Bactrim. It blocked my thiamine function. It took a few weeks for my health to really get bad which it did September of 2020. I was really sick and getting worse daily. I hurt all over. I was pooping little squiggles because my intestines were so swollen and I had developed a tremor in my right hand. I started taking thiamine hcl (with water, not juice) around Oct.1, 2020; 300mg, 2Xday. After the first dose, within 45 minutes, all my inflammatory pain disappeared, my head cleared, and my temperature went up a full degree to normal. So I continued to take thiamine hcl 2Xday and increased the dose each time I noticed the improving effects diminishing. In January of 2021, I was taking 750mg 2Xday of thiamine hcl which equals to 1500mg/day. I was better but I was still pooping squiggles and I still had swallowing difficulty.

I was getting concerned about how much thiamine hcl I was taking and I was worried that if I increased it again negative things might happen. So I searched on line and found Dr. Costantini's website. According to Dr. Costantini's protocol, my optimum dose of thiamine hcl taken orally should be 1 gram, 2Xday. So on Feb1, 2021, I increased my dose to that recommended optimum dose. Within 2 days, my digestive tract normalized and I had 2 massive poops (not little squiggles). Peristalsis had returned, inflammatory swelling had resolved. For the first time in years I craved beef steak and so I bought some, cooked it, and ate it and could swallow it without it getting stuck in my throat. My stomach acid had normalized and I had no digestive problems dealing with the steak. I continued to experience amazing improvements on the high dose thiamine hcl for about 6 months and by then my health was (and still is) better than it has been for decades.

I understand now that I had developed Wernecke's Encephalopathy fall of 2020 and if I had had a good doctor perhaps they would have diagnosed me correctly (doubtful) and given me high dose thiamine by injections and my recovery might have been faster. But I didn't have a doctor and the lunatic urologist had wanted to put me in the hospital and run a scope up me to have a look see at my kidneys (I declined) so I wasn't inclined to go down the road with another doctor. I'm in a small town; not a lot of doctors to choose from. Thiamine deficiency is not on many doctors' radar.

During the 4 months that I was increasing my thiamine hcl dose, I researched thiamine a lot. I learned that it's a good idea to also supplement with magnesium, riboflavin, niacinamide, and potassium too. I use orange juice to provide the potassium; I supplement the others + a few more things.

Did you experience any hair loss with the high dose of thiamine over an extended time?

 

[TNT]

Did you experience any hair loss with the high dose of thiamine over an extended time?

I'm curious why you ask this. Is thiamine known to cause hair loss? Hair loss is a big issue for me, so I'm not keen on doing something that might make me balder.

 

[hierundjetzt]

I'm curious why you ask this. Is thiamine known to cause hair loss? Hair loss is a big issue for me, so I'm not keen on doing something that might make me balder.

I myself have not megadosed with it so no personal experience. However, there are many reports of hair loss on other forums. That's why I ask. Of course if you're bald already this would not be a concern. I have not read about other side effects, except potential hair loss.

 

[mostlylurking]

Did you experience any hair loss with the high dose of thiamine over an extended time?

No; no hair loss. I've had no negative effects from the high dose thiamine hcl. It corrected my oxidative metabolism so it made everything in my body work better. According to Dr. Costantini, there should be no negative side effects from it. Occasionally, a patient had a negative response and he would stop the thiamine for a week and then resume with half the dose. There's lots of info on his website. I found watching his patients' before and after videos illuminating.

 

[GTW]

Any feedback on benfotiamine or other B1 forms?

 

[mostlylurking]

Any feedback on benfotiamine or other B1 forms?

I've never tried benfotiamine myself. I think that Elliot Overton at eonutrition likes it next best to TTFD if my memory is working correctly.

This article discusses the different types of thiamine:

Navigating Thiamine Supplements- Hormones Matter

Understanding the different forms of vitamin B1.

www.hormonesmatter.com