The Long-Winded Digestion Thread

[Jennifer]

So is acidity the state that causes diarrhea and alkaline is constipation?

And if so, does ACV contribute to diarrhea and lemon juice to stopping it?

Or I wonder if baking soda drink is the better choice.

Or just use charcoal.

You're right, I'm more confused , but I am just trying to figure out what to do. My goal is this: digest certain foods better (such as meat and fat) thereby using nutrients better, stop bloating, and help stop diarrhea which will also help me retain my nutrients.

Correct! The ACV will contribute to the diarrhea because it's acidic thus speeding up digestion or in the very least, the ACV won't slow things down for you. It should help you digest your food, though.

Digesting foods better, absorbing nutrients better, stopping the bloat and diarrhea should all happen once your gut lining has healed. Unless your body is trying to eliminate bad bacteria/a virus, then I could see that being an cause for the diarrhea.

So it looks like it's not just my mom who was gaining extreme benefits from the Glutagenics. I ran out of the Glut. over four days ago and last night, I felt a bit bloated and a rash appearing so I took 2 tablespoons of AC. I woke this morning and my stomach was burning and swollen and I had a full on rash. So it appears that it was the Glutagenics or mostly due to the Glutagenics that I was gaining all those benefits and not necessarily from the AC. My skin rash and stomach burn probably went away because the Glutagenics was helping my gut. I ordered some more and will make sure this time to be consistent in taking it multiple times a day, everyday and AC a few times a week.

 

[Peata]

Peata, do you have Trader Joe's in your area? They carry a frozen wild shrimp for $8-$9 a lb. Crab meat and scallops also contain selenium. I plan on making a quiche with the canned crabmeat. I get the Patagonian scallops at my local grocery store.

Are you supplementing calcium since you are lowering your dairy?

Hi Diane, No Trader Joe's, nothing good like that in my area. I do have a can of crabmeat I just looked at in the pantry and you gave me the idea of making a quiche with it. Have a good recipe or link to one? Scallops are no less than $15 for bag of frozen here. I haven't looked into their nutrition though. I mean, if I could get by with thawing and eating a few of them each week that would make it more economical I guess.

I average 1000 mg. calcium per day. I still eat a little dairy, just not drinking cups of milk. I do have a calcium supplement I can take if needed though.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I have struggled with gut issues pretty much my whole life, mostly it was alternating severe constipation and then diarrhea. When I started Peating it became pretty much straight diarrhea as you all know. My theory is that I have had some sort of gut flora imbalance due to excessive antibiotic use, poor nutrition and hypothyroidism, so all three areas needed to be addressed in order to restore balance and allow guts to heal.

You can never kill off the gut flora entirely, but you can knock it back and help your body to get the upper hand, so to speak. Balance seems to be key.

For me, weight loss is not possible without thyroid medication. My metabolism is too effed up at the moment, but I know healing is possible.

Oysters make me feel very good too! I probably eat too many, but I'm currently practicing intuitive eating and am finding it works awesome. I eat whatever I "FEEL" like eating in a Peatish context.

I think your plan sounds great Peata. Peat says lots of calcium is key for weight loss. MMMMM....quiche sounds DELISH!!!!

 

[Peata]

[
Correct! The ACV will contribute to the diarrhea because it's acidic thus speeding up digestion or in the very least, the ACV won't slow things down for you. It should help you digest your food, though.

Digesting foods better, absorbing nutrients better, stopping the bloat and diarrhea should all happen once your gut lining has healed. Unless your body is trying to eliminate bad bacteria/a virus, then I could see that being an cause for the diarrhea.

So it looks like it's not just my mom who was gaining extreme benefits from the Glutagenics. I ran out of the Glut. over four days ago and last night, I felt a bit bloated and a rash appearing so I took 2 tablespoons of AC. I woke this morning and my stomach was burning and swollen and I had a full on rash. So it appears that it was the Glutagenics or mostly due to the Glutagenics that I was gaining all those benefits and not necessarily from the AC. My skin rash and stomach burn probably went away because the Glutagenics was helping my gut. I ordered some more and will make sure this time to be consistent in taking it multiple times a day, everyday and AC a few times a week.

OK another question or two if you don't mind. Then would it be better for me to use a lemon juice drink instead of ACV drink before meals? This would increase acid for digestion but also alkalinize and help with diarrhea, right?

And if that's the drink I should use, then is fresh lemon the only good choice or could I use the squeeze lemon bottle such as Italia Garden Italian Lemon Juice not from concentrate - ingredients are lemon juice, lemon oil, potassium metabisulfite. (that's what I happen to have in my pantry but I might be able to find another bottled lemon juice).

 

[Peata]

So it looks like it's not just my mom who was gaining extreme benefits from the Glutagenics. I ran out of the Glut. over four days ago and last night, I felt a bit bloated and a rash appearing so I took 2 tablespoons of AC. I woke this morning and my stomach was burning and swollen and I had a full on rash. So it appears that it was the Glutagenics or mostly due to the Glutagenics that I was gaining all those benefits and not necessarily from the AC. My skin rash and stomach burn probably went away because the Glutagenics was helping my gut. I ordered some more and will make sure this time to be consistent in taking it multiple times a day, everyday and AC a few times a week.

Glutagenics is getting more tempting. Glad it helps you.

 

[Peata]

I'm currently practicing intuitive eating and am finding it works awesome. I eat whatever I "FEEL" like eating in a Peatish context.

That's what I'm leaning more toward now too. Sounds like it's working very well for you.

 

[Jennifer]

OK another question or two if you don't mind. Then would it be better for me to use a lemon juice drink instead of ACV drink before meals? This would increase acid for digestion but also alkalinize and help with diarrhea, right?

Well, lemon turns alkaline during digestion so I'm not really sure it will do you much good in terms of helping you break down your food. At that point, you could try presoaking your meat in the lemon juice, pineapple (contains bromelain enzyme) or papaya ( contains papain enzyme) or some other safe tenderizer so it's easier for you to digest, since you said you have a hard time digesting meat. I would use the lemon juice trick on seafood as well.

 

[visionofstrength]

So it looks like it's not just my mom who was gaining extreme benefits from the Glutagenics. I ran out of the Glut. over four days ago and last night, I felt a bit bloated and a rash appearing so I took 2 tablespoons of AC. I woke this morning and my stomach was burning and swollen and I had a full on rash. So it appears that it was the Glutagenics or mostly due to the Glutagenics that I was gaining all those benefits and not necessarily from the AC. My skin rash and stomach burn probably went away because the Glutagenics was helping my gut. I ordered some more and will make sure this time to be consistent in taking it multiple times a day, everyday and AC a few times a week.

J, did you ever get the cascara? If the aloe vera in Glutagenics works, then so should the cascara, but without the additives in Glutagenics, especially glutamine.

Peat thinks that the amino acid glutamine is "toxic in excess"; that "Even if free amino acids could be produced industrially without introducing toxins and allergens, they wouldn't be appropriate for nutritional use"; and that "Beginning with the industrial production of glutamic acid (sold as MSG, monosodium glutamate), the public has been systematically misinformed about the effects of amino acids in the diet."

 

[Jennifer]

J, did you ever get the cascara? If the aloe vera in Glutagenics works, then so should the cascara, but without the additives in Glutagenics, especially glutamine. Peat thinks that the amino acid glutamine is "toxic in excess"; that "Even if free amino acids could be produced industrially without introducing toxins and allergens, they wouldn't be appropriate for nutritional use"; and that "Beginning with the industrial production of glutamic acid (sold as MSG, monosodium glutamate), the public has been systematically misinformed about the effects of amino acids in the diet."

Ah...there you are, P!

Yeah, I got the cascara, but then Such_Saturation told me this:

Active charcoal binds polyphenols very well, so I think it could make the Cascara useless. Magnesium seems to be a combo with charcoal in some formulations though. Charcoal also likes iodine so perhaps take away from seafood!

I figured the Glutagenics wasn't ideal and that's why I put off using it, but it's been working and I actually thought it had to do mostly with the deglycyrrhizinized licorice extract in it since you mention that Ray said aloe juice is only bioactive if it's made fresh.

So what do you think then? Should I maybe try using the cascara in the morning and take activated charcoal every other night and this should prevent the AC from rendering the cascara useless? Or is the emodin unaffected either way?

At this point, I've had enough of this rash, brain fog and my resulting indecisiveness. I still had bloat when I cut out dairy, but at least I had clear skin and a clear head. I've been trying for six years now to stop the rash. And it's so strange because it only shows up on my face. The rest of my skin is smooth as can be. Since doing fruitarianism for those two years and cutting out dairy completely during that time, as soon as I added milk back in, my face developed these pinhole sores and rash. I never had this before. I've always had rosy cheeks, but this is not a blush. You can actually see the rash start to develop under the top layer of skin and then these pinhole blood spots on the surface.

And it stinks because I know if I cut out dairy the rash would disappear for good, but I crave milk like crazy and if I've learned anything from my fruitarian nightmare, it's that I should honor my most intense cravings. Plus, milk seems to have helped me build lean muscle while dropping the weird "pudge" areas I developed from refeeding and my spine pain seems to have lessened a bit.

By the way, my artwork is coming along nicely! :)

 

[visionofstrength]

So what do you think then? Should I maybe try using the cascara in the morning and take activated charcoal every other night and this should prevent the AC from rendering the cascara useless? Or is the emodin unaffected either way?

I don't have any indication that charcoal has any deleterious effects. The studies I've seen add charcoal directly to food in the very long-term.

...I've been trying for six years now to stop the rash. And it's so strange because it only shows up on my face. ...

Avoid starches and fibers, which as Peat says, are a "nearly ubiquitous source ... of the endotoxin, bacterial lipopolysaccharides absorbed from the intestine (Wang and White, 1999). That this ubiquitous toxin has a role in rosacea is suggested by the observation that intestinal stimulation, to speed transit through the bowel, immediately relieved symptoms (Kendall, 2002)."

Takeaway: It sounds like endotoxins being absorbed through your intestine. Try 4 tablespoons of charcoal, small amounts of coconut oil throughout the day, and 4 capsules of cascara, twice a day.

 

[Jennifer]

Avoid starches and fibers, which as Peat says, are a "nearly ubiquitous source ... of the endotoxin, bacterial lipopolysaccharides absorbed from the intestine (Wang and White, 1999). That this ubiquitous toxin has a role in rosacea is suggested by the observation that intestinal stimulation, to speed transit through the bowel, immediately relieved symptoms (Kendall, 2002)."

Okay, I'll stop the daily carrot I've started eating this past week. That's been my only source of fiber. I haven't had any starch in a while. I started to question if all the fiber from the fruit I was eating was causing me an issue, but what threw me off is that I would only get the rash when I consumed dairy. I assumed it was because of the bacteria in it since cultured dairy was torture to my skin, with raw milk a close second.

Takeaway: It sounds like endotoxins being absorbed through your intestine. Try 4 tablespoons of charcoal, small amounts of coconut oil throughout the day, and 4 capsules of cascara, twice a day.

Okay, sounds like a plan!

Since my stomach started burning again after I added coffee to my diet, it looks like I'm going to have to start eating meat again to fill in the gap of nutrients I'm not getting. I'm not sure what else I could consume that has magnesium and other nutrients, but doesn't contain fiber and won't irritate my stomach. The tips of my fingers are starting to tingle and go numb at times so something's definitely not right. :?

Thank you, P. for taking the time to help me. I appreciate it! :)

 

[Vita3]

I wonder about this quote from Ray Peat:

“I’m not confident of the purity and proper particle size of the charcoal products that are available, so I think bamboo shoot and carrots, along with cascara sagrada as needed, are the safest way to keep endotoxin and estrogen under control.”

 

[visionofstrength]

I wonder about this quote from Ray Peat:

“I’m not confident of the purity and proper particle size of the charcoal products that are available, so I think bamboo shoot and carrots, along with cascara sagrada as needed, are the safest way to keep endotoxin and estrogen under control.”

Hi Vita3!

It seems you joined in 2012 and had made 6 posts, before this one. Welcome! and thanks for the great post!

Are you considering charcoal? Do you have endotoxin issues?

The information that Peat dispenses in email exchanges is short and to the point, but is never meant to be actual advice, from what I can see. Peat does not know the severity of your own condition.

Dan Wich has said that he feels Peat, in 2012, had not found a source of charcoal he could trust. In fact, Peat has also expressed concern about whether cascara can be purchased from a reliable source, too. For that matter, he is concerned about whether you obtain your carrot or bamboo shoots from a reliable source.

Since 2012, Dan has put together some sources of charcoal here:
http://www.toxinless.com/activated-charcoal
Here, the more important issue is that when you are being poisoned with endotoxins, as so many of the members of this forum seem to be, you need a poison control, such as charcoal.

As an example, if you went to an emergency room with symptoms of being poisoned, you would not be advised to eat carrot or bamboo shoots! If you did, your chances of survival would not improve much at all!

Instead, if you got a life-saving dose of charcoal soon enough, you would almost surely live.

There are serious cases of endotoxic poisoning on this forum that often are emergency situations, and even matters of life or death. In these cases, carrot and bamboo shoot is the wrong advice, and I believe Peat would agree.

To say otherwise might prevent someone from obtaining the life-saving and practical treatment that they desperately need.

 

[visionofstrength]

Okay, I'll stop the daily carrot I've started eating this past week. That's been my only source of fiber.

The carrot is one source of fiber (a root) that is probably ok if you grate it (not too fine) and add a little coconut oil and vinegar to it before eating.

Since my stomach started burning again after I added coffee to my diet, it looks like I'm going to have to start eating meat again to fill in the gap of nutrients I'm not getting. I'm not sure what else I could consume that has magnesium and other nutrients, but doesn't contain fiber and won't irritate my stomach. The tips of my fingers are starting to tingle and go numb at times so something's definitely not right. :?

The known side effects of glutamine happens to include all the symptoms you're suffering, skin rash, decreased sensation of touch and burning in the stomach.

Glutamine is a powerful laxative, but its side effects are many:
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/glutamine-side-effects.html

Coconut oil and cascara are good laxatives as well, because they stimulate peristalsis and repair leaky gut, without side effects.

 

[Vita3]

I wonder about this quote from Ray Peat:

“I’m not confident of the purity and proper particle size of the charcoal products that are available, so I think bamboo shoot and carrots, along with cascara sagrada as needed, are the safest way to keep endotoxin and estrogen under control.”

Hi Vita3!

It seems you joined in 2012 and had made 6 posts, before this one. Welcome! and thanks for the great post!

Are you considering charcoal? Do you have endotoxin issues?

The information that Peat dispenses in email exchanges is short and to the point, but is never meant to be actual advice, from what I can see. Peat does not know the severity of your own condition.

Dan Wich has said that he feels Peat, in 2012, had not found a source of charcoal he could trust. In fact, Peat has also expressed concern about whether cascara can be purchased from a reliable source, too. For that matter, he is concerned about whether you obtain your carrot or bamboo shoots from a reliable source.

Since 2012, Dan has put together some sources of charcoal here:
http://www.toxinless.com/activated-charcoal
Here, the more important issue is that when you are being poisoned with endotoxins, as so many of the members of this forum seem to be, you need a poison control, such as charcoal.

As an example, if you went to an emergency room with symptoms of being poisoned, you would not be advised to eat carrot or bamboo shoots! If you did, your chances of survival would not improve much at all!

Instead, if you got a life-saving dose of charcoal soon enough, you would almost surely live.

There are serious cases of endotoxic poisoning on this forum that often are emergency situations, and even matters of life or death. In these cases, carrot and bamboo shoot is the wrong advice, and I believe Peat would agree.

To say otherwise might prevent someone from obtaining the life-saving and practical treatment that they desperately need.

Hi visionofstrength,

I am a silent member

It is actual recommendation from Ray Peat to eat carrot or bamboo shoot instead of activated charcoal, but you're right if the endotoxic poisoning are emergency situation then activated charcoal might be a good thing to go for it.
What activated charcoal do you use?

Yes, I do have some problems with the health, like fungus infection and other weird symptoms.

 

[Jennifer]

Well, I understand that everything we consume comes with a question mark in regards to it's purity, but at this point, I've tried pretty much everything else and I'm willing to take my chances with the AC.

When I first got into Ray's work, I would come on here and read peatarian's posts. She was a pool of information and very kind in sharing what she had learned. So I have a lot of respect for her and her advice and since she recommended the AC, I'm going to give it a good trial run before writing it off completely. Plus, vision seems to have done his homework and I trust him also.

At this point, I feel like the rats in that stress study Ray often quotes. I feel unescapable stress, but a stick won't help me to overcome it. In the end, no amount of positive thinking, drawing my feelings, meditating on pillows, listening to music, journaling or relaxing with my food choices is going to help me escape my body. Something that should facilitate me in feeling free to experience life has become my prison and unfortunately as fun as the distraction method may be, it's only that and has not helped resolve my physical injuries. I'm sick of being nothing more than a survivor at this point. I want to be thriving! It's a birthright! So I'm giving this new plan a try and if it doesn't work then I'm resorting to acceptance. I've given it my all and that has to be good enough in the end!

Okay, so I'm stopping the Glutagenics, keeping the carrot salad, taking 4 tablespoons of AC every other night, 1/2 - 1 tablespoon of coconut oil throughout the day, 4 capsules of cascara twice a day or as needed based on symptoms, WP Thyroid and progest-e. Add this to a diet of milk, homemade cottage cheese, sugar, gelatin and choking down the occasional liver. Hopefully, I'll see improvements and I can start adding more foods in slowly. And that's all she wrote!

Thanks everyone for all your help! I'll keep you posted! :)

 

[sunmountain]

Still inflamed. Doc said labs "normal," but don't know what labs as they haven't posted online yet. She said try FODMAPS for 4 weeks in email just before holiday; I wrote back today asking more urgent relief...can't wait 4 weeks.

RPPS didn't work for me; stomach swelling up no matter what I eat.

For the women...looking at my DVF wrap dresses that looked fab on me 3 months ago...now I look pregnant...depressing.

Eating whatever I feel like now...the hell with the damn gut.

Diarrhea is a bit better.

Tara, I LOVE the stewed apples...will be a comfort food now on. Tell me some more good simple food if you can.

Thanks!

 

[Jennifer]

Sorry to hear you're gut is still inflamed, sunmountain.

After I took the hydrogen breath test for SIBO, I too was told to follow the FODMAPS plan. Obviously it didn't help me because here I am! LOL

Though you asked for simple food ideas from tara, I have one if you don't mind me sharing?

Since you liked the stewed apples, you could try a sort of fruit compote by taking a favorite fruit such as peaches or sweet cherries and sticking them in a baking dish with some butter, brown sugar or white sugar, maple syrup, some vanilla extract and cinnamon (test first because of your gut) and bake it in the oven or even stew it if you prefer. Basically any cooking method that really breaks down the fruit so it's easier for you to digest.

Once it's baked, you can add the compote to some all natural ice cream or it might even be good on an all natural cottage or ricotta cheese. You could even try baking the cheese with the compote in the oven. Lots of options! :)

 

[sunmountain]

Thanks, Jennifer, that sounds great! I'll give those recipes a try...they are so easy.

 

[sunmountain]

Here are my test results. The doc just emailed back saying she won't give antibiotics unless I first see GI for breath test for SIBO. She still wants me to try FODMAPS also.

I'd like to know if any of you see a red flag in the results based on a Peatish reading, and why.

Also the test results say "Yes" to fasting, but I went in around 5pm, so definitely NOT fasting. But maybe that doesn't matter?

Hemoglobin A1C 4.5-6.1% 5.5

Calcium, Ionized, Serum 1.13-1.32 mmol/L 1.23
pH Serum 7.39
Specimen pH is utilized for Ionized Calcium interpretation.
Reference intervals do not apply.

Vitamin D (25-Hydroxy) 30-100 ng/mL 54

T3, Total 0.80-2.00 ng/mL 1.03

Free T4 0.8-1.8 ng/dL 0.8

TSH 0.50-4.50 mcIU/mL 2.17

Ammonia 0-32 umol/L 30

Lactate 0.5-2.2 mmol/L 1.0

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel:
Sodium 135-148 meq/L 140
Potassium 3.5-5.1 meq/L 4.3
Chloride 96-109 meq/L 101
CO2 21-31 meq/L 29
Urea Nitrogen 7-22 mg/dL 24
Creatinine 0.5-1.2 mg/dL 0.6
Est GFR Afr American >60
Estimated GFR is calculated from serum creatinine using the
Modification of Diet in Renal Disease (MDRD) equation in
patients 18 years or older.
Reference Range: >60 mL/min/A,(A=1.73 sq m).
Est GFR Non-Afr Amer >60
Estimated GFR is calculated from serum creatinine using the
Modification of Diet in Renal Disease (MDRD) equation in
patients 18 years or older.
Reference Range: >60 mL/min/A,(A=1.73 sq m).
Glucose 60-99 mg/dL 86
Interpretation
Fasting glucose 100-125 mg/dL: Impaired
Fasting glucose>=126 mg/dL: Diagnostic for diabetes
Random glucose>=200 mg/dL: Diagnostic for diabetes when
symptomatic
Calcium 8.4-10.5 mg/dL 9.4
Total Protein 6.0-8.2 g/dL 6.7
Albumin 3.5-5.3 g/dL 4.1
Total Bilirubin 0.1-1.2 mg/dL 0.2
Alkaline Phosphatase 30-120 U/L 129
Aspartate Amino Trans 0-31 U/L 25
ALT 0-31 U/L 34
Anion Gap 7-16 meq/L 10
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 40
AST/ALT Ratio 0.7

CBC w/ Auto Differential:
Component Standard Range Your Value
Red Blood Cell Count 4.00-5.20 M/cu mm 4.13
Hemoglobin 12.0-15.0 g/dL 12.7
Hematocrit 36.0-46.0 % 38.5
Mean Corpuscular Volume 80.0-100.0 fL 93.2
Mean Corpus HgB 26.0-34.0 pg 30.8
Mean Corpus HgB Conc 31.0-37.0 g/dL 33.0
RBC Distribution Width 11.5-14.5 % 13.9
Platelets 150-350 K/cu mm 246
Mean Platelet Volume 9.2-12.7 fL 9.8
White Blood Cell Count 4.50-11.00 K/cu mm 7.85
Lymphocytes % 24.0-44.0 % 29.2
Monocyte % 2.0-11.0 % 4.8
Neutrophil % 40.0-70.0 % 60.3
Eosinophil % 1.0-4.0 % 5.6
Basophil % 0.0-2.0 % 0.1
Neutrophil Absolute (ANC) 1.50-7.80 K/cu mm 4.73
Lymphcytes Absolute 1.10-4.80 K/cu mm 2.29
Monocyte Absolute 0.10-1.20 K/cu mm 0.38
Eosinophil Absolute 0.12-0.30 K/cu mm 0.44


Thanks