Desperate to find answers for my breathing problems and wheezing lasting almost an entire year non stop

[pubh12]

That seems like a massive dose of potassium powder. Have you considered the amount of potassium you get from your diet?

Office of Dietary Supplements - Potassium

Potassium overview for health professionals. Research health effects, dosing, sources, deficiency symptoms, side effects, and interactions here.

ods.od.nih.gov

Table 2: Potassium Content of Selected Foods [13]

Food	Milligrams (mg) per serving	Percent DV*
Apricots, dried, ½ cup	755​	16​
Lentils, cooked, 1 cup	731​	16​
Squash, acorn, mashed, 1 cup	644​	14​
Prunes, dried, ½ cup	635​	14​
Raisins, ½ cup	618​	13​
Potato, baked, flesh only, 1 medium	610​	13​
Kidney beans, canned, 1 cup	607​	13​
Orange juice, 1 cup	496​	11​
Soybeans, mature seeds, boiled, ½ cup	443​	9​
Banana, 1 medium	422​	9​
Milk, 1%, 1 cup	366​	8​
Spinach, raw, 2 cups	334​	7​
Chicken breast, boneless, grilled, 3 ounces	332​	7​
Yogurt, fruit variety, nonfat, 6 ounces	330​	7​
Salmon, Atlantic, farmed, cooked, 3 ounces	326​	7​
Beef, top sirloin, grilled, 3 ounces	315​	7​
Molasses, 1 tablespoon	308​	7​
Tomato, raw, 1 medium	292​	6​
Soymilk, 1 cup	287​	6​
Yogurt, Greek, plain, nonfat, 6 ounces	240​	5​
Broccoli, cooked, chopped, ½ cup	229​	5​
Cantaloupe, cubed, ½ cup	214​	5​
Turkey breast, roasted, 3 ounces	212​	5​
Asparagus, cooked, ½ cup	202​	4​
Apple, with skin, 1 medium	195​	4​
Cashew nuts, 1 ounce	187​	4​
Rice, brown, medium grain, cooked, 1 cup	154​	3​
Tuna, light, canned in water, drained, 3 ounces	153​	3​
Coffee, brewed, 1 cup	116​	2​
Lettuce, iceberg, shredded, 1 cup	102​	2​
Peanut butter, 1 tablespoon	90​	2​
Tea, black, brewed, 1 cup	88​	2​
Flaxseed, whole, 1 tablespoon	84​	2​
Bread, whole wheat, 1 slice	81​	2​
Egg, 1 large	69​	1​
Rice, white, medium grain, cooked, 1 cup	54​	1​
Bread, white, 1 slice	37​	1​
Cheese, mozzarella, part skim, 1½ ounces	36​	1​

I searched this article for "edema", but it is not mentioned.

Here's some Ray Peat articles about edema:
When energy fails: Edema, heart failure, hypertension, sarcopenia, etc.
raypeat.com › articles › edema-heart-failure-hypertension-sarcopenia
Lowering inflammation and the associated excess of free fatty acids in the blood, and improving the ability to oxidize glucose, will lower blood pressure while ...

Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity
raypeat.com › articles › articles › salt
Despite numerous publications showing that diuretics could cause the edematous problems that they were supposed to remedy, they have been one of the most ...

Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging
raypeat.com › articles › articles › water
Combined with a high protein diet, eating a little extra salt usually helps to correct a variety of problems involving edema, poor circulation, and high blood ...

There’s a thread on here I remember reading about some relationship between thiamine and autoimmune disease. What are your thoughts on their relationship ?

Edit: So I’ve been spending some time reading a lot of your posts in other threads. One thing you said -

“Acetylcholine can't happen without thiamine. A person's thiamine can become deficient and its function can also get blocked.”

I’ve been in fascinating discussions with people who have relapsing polychondritis - a disease that destroys the cartilage. This one gentleman I talk to has a very interesting theory about an abundance of choline causing this - which absolutely matches up with my experience of Huperzine - alpha gpc and other supplements I was taking triggering the absolute worst pain in all my cartilage structures - and probably my airway collapse if my ENT is correct-Just thinking out loud , but maybe a thiamine deficiency could be preventing the choline from synthesizing to acetylcholine - and acetylcholine is something that apparently is lacking in POTS which I also suffer from.

My POTS symptoms were much improved when I could the acetylcholine increasing supplements but I may have been flooding they body with choline that I’m not utilizing properly. I’m obviously not sure if any of this but It’s got me thinking.

Just looking around it seems also b5 is necessary for this conversion. Might be something else for me to look into. Does any of this sound plausible to you?

 

[mostlylurking]

There’s a thread on here I remember reading about some relationship between thiamine and autoimmune disease. What are your thoughts on their relationship ?

Edit: So I’ve been spending some time reading a lot of your posts in other threads. One thing you said -

“Acetylcholine can't happen without thiamine. A person's thiamine can become deficient and its function can also get blocked.”

I’ve been in fascinating discussions with people who have relapsing polychondritis - a disease that destroys the cartilage. This one gentleman I talk to has a very interesting theory about an abundance of choline causing this - which absolutely matches up with my experience of Huperzine - alpha gpc and other supplements I was taking triggering the absolute worst pain in all my cartilage structures - and probably my airway collapse if my ENT is correct-Just thinking out loud , but maybe a thiamine deficiency could be preventing the choline from synthesizing to acetylcholine - and acetylcholine is something that apparently is lacking in POTS which I also suffer from.

My POTS symptoms were much improved when I could the acetylcholine increasing supplements but I may have been flooding they body with choline that I’m not utilizing properly. I’m obviously not sure if any of this but It’s got me thinking.

Just looking around it seems also b5 is necessary for this conversion. Might be something else for me to look into. Does any of this sound plausible to you?

Yes, your theory sounds possible. I believe thiamine supplementation is extremely important. Over the past 40 years, I've been diagnosed as having the "marker" for autoimmune disease, and also having rheumatoid arthritis, leaky gut syndrome, low stomach acid, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and have experienced a LOT of connective tissue problems. Mushy cartilage, hyper-mobile joints, severe inflammation problems. I've managed to recover my health, including my cartilage health, thanks to several things: improved diet, hypothyroidism adequately addressed with the help of a good endocrinologist, and high dose thiamine hcl.

Diet changes:
I avoid PUFA like the plague. Searching for "PUFA and cartilage" online is helpful but beware that the omega 3's are inflammatory too and should be avoided. PUFA, including omega 3 fish oil, is known to deplete thiamine and thiamine deficiency is extremely inflammatory. Prior to finding Ray Peat, I took high quality fish oil for 9 months; it quickly gave me lipofuscin and cataracts. Since then, I've scrupulously avoided all PUFA for over 8 years.

In addition to avoiding PUFA (including Omega 3's), I consume a lot of gelatin which I believe has been very helpful.

I have been high dosing thiamine hcl for 3 years. During this time, I have been aware that my connective tissue has improved. I've also been able to improve my muscle tone so I'm able to hold things together like a regular person now.

suggested reading:

Gelatin, stress, longevity

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

"Some types of cell damage are prevented almost as well by alanine and proline as by glycine, so the use of gelatin, rather than glycine, is preferable, especially when the gelatin is associated with its normal biochemicals. For example, skin is a rich source of steroid hormones, and cartilage contains “Mead acid,” which is itself antiinflammatory."
"For a long time, gelatin's therapeutic effect in arthritis was assumed to result from its use in repairing the cartilage or other connective tissues around joints, simply because those tissues contain so much collagen. (Marketers suggest that eating cartilage or gelatin will build cartilage or other collagenous tissue.) Some of the consumed gelatin does get incorporated into the joint cartilage, but that is a slow process, and the relief of pain and inflammation is likely to be almost immediate, resembling the antiinflammatory effect of cortisol or aspirin."

Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

"The hyperhydration of hypothyroidism has been known to cause swelling and softening of cartilage, with deformation of joints, but somehow it has never dawned on surgeons that this process would lead to deformation of intervertebral disks."

Bone and joint manifestations of hypothyroidism - PubMed

Hypothyroidism is frequently accompanied by musculoskeletal manifestations ranging from myalgias and arthralgias to true myopathy and arthritis. A case is presented in which an arthropathic process in the hip was the isolated finding in a young man who was severely hypothyroid. Previous...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think that thiamine has also helped my connective tissue because thiamine is needed in every cell of the body and its deficiency causes severe inflammation. Inflammation destroys joints.
Both thiamine and thyroid hormones are required for oxidative metabolism.

The importance of thiamine (vitamin B1) in humans The importance of thiamine (vitamin B1) in humans: Please note that thiamine acts as a coenzyme for transketolase which is required for the pentose phosphate pathway.

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf
"Thiamine, or vitamin B1, was the first vitamin to be identified. It functions as a catalyst in the generation of energy through decarboxylation of branched-chain amino acids and alpha-ketoacids and acts as a coenzyme for transketolase reactions in the form of thiamine pyrophosphate."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0197018613000120 The impact of oxidative stress in thiamine deficiency: A multifactorial targeting issue

 

[mostlylurking]

There’s a thread on here I remember reading about some relationship between thiamine and autoimmune disease. What are your thoughts on their relationship ?

I'll try to address this here.

Yes, I believe there is a strong connection between thiamine deficiency and "autoimmune" disease.

The Overlooked Vitamin That Improves Autoimmune Disease And Autonomic Dysfunction

by Ali Le Vere, B.S: Thiamin may be the missing link to treating autoimmune disease and autonomic dysfunction... Although deficiencies in this vitamin have long been considered eradicated, case studies show supplementation with this nutrient improves fatigue in autoimmune patients in a matter...

awaken.com

"One of the common threads uniting disparate autoimmune disease labels, irrespective of diagnosis, is the debilitating fatigue that plagues patients. Although methylated B vitamins have been given ample fanfare, vitamin B1, or thiamin, has garnered far less attention in communities that emphasize the holistic management of autoimmune disease."

Thiamine Deficiency Promotes T Cell Infiltration in Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis: the Involvement of CCL2

Multiple sclerosis (MS) is a complex multifactorial disease that results from the interplay between environmental factors and a susceptible genetic background. Experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) has been widely used to investigate the mechanisms ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Thiamine is a cofactor of key enzymes in glucose metabolism (39). Thiamine deficiency (TD) causes mild impairment of oxidative metabolism and induces Wernicke–Korsakoff’s syndrome (WKS) in humans. TD causes regionally selective neuronal death, mitochondrial dysfunction, energy shortage and chronic oxidative stress in the brains of humans and animals (40–41). TD in animals has been used to model some neurodegenerative diseases (41). Subclinical TD is common in the elder population (42). However, it is unclear whether the status of thiamine will affect MS and EAE. Our previous studies demonstrated that TD increased CCL2 expression in the CNS (41). Here we demonstrated that TD enhanced the EAE severity by activating T cells reaction and increasing CCL2 expression in the spinal cord."
comment: I'm not sure where they get the idea that thiamine deficiency causes a mild impairment that induces Wernicke-Korsakoff's syndrome; WK syndrome can kill you. Oxidative metabolism is BLOCKED by thiamine deficiency.

 

[pubh12]

Yes, your theory sounds possible. I believe thiamine supplementation is extremely important. Over the past 40 years, I've been diagnosed as having the "marker" for autoimmune disease, and also having rheumatoid arthritis, leaky gut syndrome, low stomach acid, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and have experienced a LOT of connective tissue problems. Mushy cartilage, hyper-mobile joints, severe inflammation problems. I've managed to recover my health, including my cartilage health, thanks to several things: improved diet, hypothyroidism adequately addressed with the help of a good endocrinologist, and high dose thiamine hcl.

Diet changes:
I avoid PUFA like the plague. Searching for "PUFA and cartilage" online is helpful but beware that the omega 3's are inflammatory too and should be avoided. PUFA, including omega 3 fish oil, is known to deplete thiamine and thiamine deficiency is extremely inflammatory. Prior to finding Ray Peat, I took high quality fish oil for 9 months; it quickly gave me lipofuscin and cataracts. Since then, I've scrupulously avoided all PUFA for over 8 years.

In addition to avoiding PUFA (including Omega 3's), I consume a lot of gelatin which I believe has been very helpful.

I have been high dosing thiamine hcl for 3 years. During this time, I have been aware that my connective tissue has improved. I've also been able to improve my muscle tone so I'm able to hold things together like a regular person now.

suggested reading:

Gelatin, stress, longevity

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

"Some types of cell damage are prevented almost as well by alanine and proline as by glycine, so the use of gelatin, rather than glycine, is preferable, especially when the gelatin is associated with its normal biochemicals. For example, skin is a rich source of steroid hormones, and cartilage contains “Mead acid,” which is itself antiinflammatory."
"For a long time, gelatin's therapeutic effect in arthritis was assumed to result from its use in repairing the cartilage or other connective tissues around joints, simply because those tissues contain so much collagen. (Marketers suggest that eating cartilage or gelatin will build cartilage or other collagenous tissue.) Some of the consumed gelatin does get incorporated into the joint cartilage, but that is a slow process, and the relief of pain and inflammation is likely to be almost immediate, resembling the antiinflammatory effect of cortisol or aspirin."

Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

"The hyperhydration of hypothyroidism has been known to cause swelling and softening of cartilage, with deformation of joints, but somehow it has never dawned on surgeons that this process would lead to deformation of intervertebral disks."

Bone and joint manifestations of hypothyroidism - PubMed

Hypothyroidism is frequently accompanied by musculoskeletal manifestations ranging from myalgias and arthralgias to true myopathy and arthritis. A case is presented in which an arthropathic process in the hip was the isolated finding in a young man who was severely hypothyroid. Previous...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think that thiamine has also helped my connective tissue because thiamine is needed in every cell of the body and its deficiency causes severe inflammation. Inflammation destroys joints.
Both thiamine and thyroid hormones are required for oxidative metabolism.

The importance of thiamine (vitamin B1) in humans The importance of thiamine (vitamin B1) in humans: Please note that thiamine acts as a coenzyme for transketolase which is required for the pentose phosphate pathway.

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf
"Thiamine, or vitamin B1, was the first vitamin to be identified. It functions as a catalyst in the generation of energy through decarboxylation of branched-chain amino acids and alpha-ketoacids and acts as a coenzyme for transketolase reactions in the form of thiamine pyrophosphate."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0197018613000120 The impact of oxidative stress in thiamine deficiency: A multifactorial targeting issue

I’ve only recently heard of Ray Peat the day I signed up for this site. I haven’t really dove into his ideas since my goal has been figuring out my breathing stuff. But from what I have gathered so far is that his main ideas are that thyroid problems are behind many chronic issues.

I had some thyroid results from private blood work done a few months ago. Still unsure what it means .. I Did post this on a thyroid group and someone thought it was hypothyroid but not sure.

. Free T4 was high at 16p/mol (range was 8-15) and my free t3 was 5.6 p/mol which was normal (4.3-6). My “TSH ultra sens” was .89 mlU/L which is close to the bottom (.35-4.94)


So I guess my question is- if you can’t get a doc on board with giving you thyroid meds are you out of luck for fixing it? The mushy cartalidge is interesting. And you’ve found it’s gotten less mushy ?

 

[cs3000]

@pubh12 thyroid looks good to me going by those numbers (& if core temp under tongue is good). u can buy thyroid to take but not necessary unless you are actually hypothyroid

if you think its an autoimmune condition here's what you can try for 2 weeks
- buying bromelain (from pineapples) and taking 1 cap in the AM
- buying cayenne powder and some gelatin 0 capsules. scooping 1 cap with the lid off. 1x daily in the afternoon (higher dose not necessary for this and can start to be damaging higher)
- baking soda 3g dissolved in water for pm
- avoiding all non-organic grains & vegetables (pesticides)

these should lower immune cells / switch their activity to see if theres a result
but would think the prednisone would have had an effect in that case (aside from worse psychological & adrenaline symptoms it made breathing worse too?)

I fell from my muscles being so weak at my pharmacy about a week before my breathing issues turned into a 24/7 thing

did the muscle weakness start or was it mainly at the feet / legs? and any numbness or tingling with that
& do you know your copper/ceruloplasmin levels / intake + iron related levels?

that stands out because when copper deficiency gets extreme weakness hits the lower limbs. fasciculations like you mentioned. and copper depletion can induce emphysema , lung damage
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0030678

you also mentioned connective tissue problem with your nose.

Specifically, cross-linking of elastin is inhibited by copper deficiency. In animal models, this inhibition leads to weakened connective tissue and pathologic changes in the lungs consistent with emphysema. https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/arrd.1982.126.2.312?journalCode=arrd

sounds too sudden to be als related right. if the prednisone didnt improve the breathing i'd put it on copper depletion
1 possible reason for trigger around covid could be if you used zinc , which could have crashed copper further and not replenished if on copper inadequate diet
or chronic lung infection/inflammation itself could lower copper Copper Deficiency in the Lungs of TNF-α Transgenic Mice

 

[mostlylurking]

I’ve only recently heard of Ray Peat the day I signed up for this site. I haven’t really dove into his ideas since my goal has been figuring out my breathing stuff. But from what I have gathered so far is that his main ideas are that thyroid problems are behind many chronic issues.

I had some thyroid results from private blood work done a few months ago. Still unsure what it means .. I Did post this on a thyroid group and someone thought it was hypothyroid but not sure.

. Free T4 was high at 16p/mol (range was 8-15) and my free t3 was 5.6 p/mol which was normal (4.3-6). My “TSH ultra sens” was .89 mlU/L which is close to the bottom (.35-4.94)


So I guess my question is- if you can’t get a doc on board with giving you thyroid meds are you out of luck for fixing it? The mushy cartalidge is interesting. And you’ve found it’s gotten less mushy ?

Yes, I no longer have cartilage problems. I think that Ray Peat believes that the important thing that health relies on is good oxidative metabolism. Thyroid hormone (T3, the active form) is required for oxidative metabolism. Thiamine (B1) acts as a co-enzyme for several steps in oxidative metabolism so thiamine deficiency/functional blockage also damages/interferes with oxidative metabolism. Thiamine deficiency also damages thyroid gland function. Avoiding all PUFA is critically important too.

Go to this site: TPAUK and look around. Read their Ray Peat collection of articles/information. Read their info about doctors. They have a draft letter for you to write to your doctor. If you don't have a doctor, a good way to shorten the search is to ask your local pharmacist which doctors are prescribing natural desiccated thyroid. The desiccated thyroid med I take is NP Thyroid made by Acella; it's a very good one. Go here: NP Thyroid® (thyroid tablets, USP) Info for Healthcare Providers Check that you are a practitioner, watch the videos.

 

[pubh12]

@pubh12 thyroid looks good to me going by those numbers (& if core temp under tongue is good). u can buy thyroid to take but not necessary unless you are actually hypothyroid

if you think its an autoimmune condition here's what you can try for 2 weeks
- buying bromelain (from pineapples) and taking 1 cap in the AM
- buying cayenne powder and some gelatin 0 capsules. scooping 1 cap with the lid off. 1x daily in the afternoon (higher dose not necessary for this and can start to be damaging higher)
- baking soda 3g dissolved in water for pm
- avoiding all non-organic grains & vegetables (pesticides)

these should lower immune cells / switch their activity to see if theres a result
but would think the prednisone would have had an effect in that case (aside from worse psychological & adrenaline symptoms it made breathing worse too?)

did the muscle weakness start or was it mainly at the feet / legs? and any numbness or tingling with that
& do you know your copper/ceruloplasmin levels / intake + iron related levels?

that stands out because when copper deficiency gets extreme weakness hits the lower limbs. fasciculations like you mentioned. and copper depletion can induce emphysema , lung damage
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0030678

you also mentioned connective tissue problem with your nose.

sounds too sudden to be als related right. if the prednisone didnt improve the breathing i'd put it on copper depletion
1 possible reason for trigger around covid could be if you used zinc , which could have crashed copper further and not replenished if on copper inadequate diet
or chronic lung infection/inflammation itself could lower copper Copper Deficiency in the Lungs of TNF-α Transgenic Mice

So would those changes from copper deficiency be visible on CT scans ? I do have been supplementing Copper , sometimes up to 20mg but hasn’t made much difference. There’s been no emphazema spotted on ct either.

 

[pubh12]

@mostlylurking

From my understanding , TTFD will cross the BBB and HCL thiamine doesn’t. Is that right ? Does that mean thiamine HCL won’t lower CSF fluid ?

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking

From my understanding , TTFD will cross the BBB and HCL thiamine doesn’t. Is that right ? Does that mean thiamine HCL won’t lower CSF fluid ?

This idea seems to be sort of a turf war between thiamine experts. Dr. Costantini always used the hcl type of thiamine for his Parkinson's patients and he said that in high doses it crosses the BBB just fine. I believe that is true because it resolved all my cerebral problems (brain fog, etc.). TTFD probably crosses the BBB in smaller doses better but it uses up glutathione; I was deficient in glutathione and reacted badly to TTFD. Taking high dose thiamine hcl resolved my very long term glutathione deficiency.

Here is Dr. Costantini's website, therapy page.
Here is an article about Dr. Costantini:

Astonishing: Parkinson halted by Thiamin. 250 patients have been cured in Viterbo by an Italian neurologist - Ultima Edizione.Eu

Parkinson's disease instantly evokes feelings of fear and horror. Like other neurodegenerative diseases it causes the detriment of certain qualities that

www.ultimaedizione.eu

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking

From my understanding , TTFD will cross the BBB and HCL thiamine doesn’t. Is that right ? Does that mean thiamine HCL won’t lower CSF fluid ?

Another thing to keep in mind is that thiamine is needed to maintain the integrity of the blood brain barrier.

Does thiamine protect the brain from iron overload and alcohol‐related dementia?

Alcohol‐related dementia (ARD) is a common and severe co‐morbidity in alcohol use disorder (AUD). We propose brain iron overload (BIO) to be an important and previously neglected pathogenic process, accelerating cognitive decline in AUD. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Clyde]

Another thing to keep in mind is that thiamine is needed to maintain the integrity of the blood brain barrier.

Does thiamine protect the brain from iron overload and alcohol‐related dementia?

Alcohol‐related dementia (ARD) is a common and severe co‐morbidity in alcohol use disorder (AUD). We propose brain iron overload (BIO) to be an important and previously neglected pathogenic process, accelerating cognitive decline in AUD. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

@mostlylurking. I've read a bunch of your posts and I was wondering why so many people have a functional thiamine deficiency or is it being used like a medication by mega-dosing? Thanks

 

[mostlylurking]

Hello. I've read a bunch of your posts and I was wondering why so many people have a functional thiamine deficiency or is it being used like a medication by mega-dosing? Thanks

There seems to be a lot of things that block thiamine function, including pharmaceutical drugs; also things like coffee, black tea. Sugar uses thiamine up when it is converted into energy (ATP) because thiamine is a co-enzyme in that conversion. Thiamine found in food is absorbed via the intestine. If the intestine has been compromised/damaged/injured, thiamine absorption will be diminished. As people age, their intestines become less able to absorb thiamine. Thiamine deficiency is believed to be the cause of all the dementia diseases common in old age.

In addition, I'm finding more and more things that stress the body also deplete thiamine. Heavy metals delete thiamine. So does polyunsaturated fat. I suspect that the body uses thiamine to combat the oxidative stress from these things some how. Thiamine deficiency causes all kinds of damage from oxidative stress.

Here's a basic explanation for why thiamine is so important:

Is Thiamine the Answer? - Hormones Matter

Thiamine is essential to cellular energy and energy stimulation is the essential factor required to treat any disease.

www.hormonesmatter.com

This article also mentions the importance of magnesium; here's an article about magnesium that explains why it is so important:

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You might find this article of interest

A Disease Of Modern Civilization Threatens Eradication Of All Life On Planet Earth While World Leaders Are Distracted By The Contrived Crises Of The COVID/Great Reset

Yes, mega-dosing thiamine (taking in pharmaceutical doses) is being used like medication.

Beyond Deficiency: Using Thiamine as a Metabolic Stimulant - Hormones Matter

Thiamine is functioning as a metabolic stimulant to restore energy metabolism inhibited by factors unrelated to nutritional status.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[pubh12]

There seems to be a lot of things that block thiamine function, including pharmaceutical drugs; also things like coffee, black tea. Sugar uses thiamine up when it is converted into energy (ATP) because thiamine is a co-enzyme in that conversion. Thiamine found in food is absorbed via the intestine. If the intestine has been compromised/damaged/injured, thiamine absorption will be diminished. As people age, their intestines become less able to absorb thiamine. Thiamine deficiency is believed to be the cause of all the dementia diseases common in old age.

In addition, I'm finding more and more things that stress the body also deplete thiamine. Heavy metals delete thiamine. So does polyunsaturated fat. I suspect that the body uses thiamine to combat the oxidative stress from these things some how. Thiamine deficiency causes all kinds of damage from oxidative stress.

Here's a basic explanation for why thiamine is so important:

Is Thiamine the Answer? - Hormones Matter

Thiamine is essential to cellular energy and energy stimulation is the essential factor required to treat any disease.

www.hormonesmatter.com

This article also mentions the importance of magnesium; here's an article about magnesium that explains why it is so important:

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You might find this article of interest

A Disease Of Modern Civilization Threatens Eradication Of All Life On Planet Earth While World Leaders Are Distracted By The Contrived Crises Of The COVID/Great Reset

Yes, mega-dosing thiamine (taking in pharmaceutical doses) is being used like medication.

Beyond Deficiency: Using Thiamine as a Metabolic Stimulant - Hormones Matter

Thiamine is functioning as a metabolic stimulant to restore energy metabolism inhibited by factors unrelated to nutritional status.

www.hormonesmatter.com

And there must be an EDS or other connective tissue compoment to not being able to absorb Thiamine as well.

 

[mostlylurking]

And there must be an EDS or other connective tissue compoment to not being able to absorb Thiamine as well.

The cells that are present that make up the connective tissue would not be there if they could not utilize thiamine to some extent. Every cell in the body requires thiamine to function. Thiamine is used as a co-factor for several enzymes used in the Krebs cycle. If the enzymes have a "weak affinity" for thiamine, flooding the system for a period of time will improve the situation.

Could High-Dose Thiamine (B-1) Help with ME/CFS, Fibromyalgia, and the Neurological Complications of Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome? - Health Rising

High dose Vitamin B-1 or thiamine significantly reduced fatigue in people with inactive intestinal bowel disease. Jeffrey Lubell suggests it might be able to do the same for people with chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, EDS and related diseases.

www.healthrising.org

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA

 

[pubh12]

The cells that are present that make up the connective tissue would not be there if they could not utilize thiamine to some extent. Every cell in the body requires thiamine to function. Thiamine is used as a co-factor for several enzymes used in the Krebs cycle. If the enzymes have a "weak affinity" for thiamine, flooding the system for a period of time will improve the situation.

Could High-Dose Thiamine (B-1) Help with ME/CFS, Fibromyalgia, and the Neurological Complications of Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome? - Health Rising

High dose Vitamin B-1 or thiamine significantly reduced fatigue in people with inactive intestinal bowel disease. Jeffrey Lubell suggests it might be able to do the same for people with chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, EDS and related diseases.

www.healthrising.org

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA

When it comes to potassium, if thiamine creates potassium wasting in cells, would fixing the thiamine deficiency potentially fix the potassium deficiency as well? Perhaps it’s impossible to fix a potsssium deficiency if your Thiamine deficient as well.

 

[mostlylurking]

When it comes to potassium, if thiamine creates potassium wasting in cells, would fixing the thiamine deficiency potentially fix the potassium deficiency as well? Perhaps it’s impossible to fix a potsssium deficiency if your Thiamine deficient as well.

It's my understanding that supplementing thiamine would use up more potassium so it is a good idea to supplement some potassium. I simply drink some orange juice everyday for my potassium. I do not take a potassium supplement other than the orange juice.

 

[pubh12]

It's my understanding that supplementing thiamine would use up more potassium so it is a good idea to supplement some potassium. I simply drink some orange juice everyday for my potassium. I do not take a potassium supplement other than the orange juice.

I
Due to low D, it could be low magnesium in spite of the supplementation. I have been supplementing Mg to bowel tolerance limit for a year (up to 1g at times like you) and my blood Mg is at the upper ceiling of the reference range. In spite of this my cellular Mg has remained low in all of my hair tests... except for one. What was different back then? I was taking a Mg supplement with some D added.

My problem is that I can't take much D without making my twitching, palpitations and breathing issues worse. The reason likely is that though high levels of D increase Mg absorption, initially D uses up Mg. Concurrent low D & low Mg is a catch-22: without D your cells won't absorb Mg, with D your cells will lose Mg into D metabolism.

In the past week I've begun working around this issue by introducing D gradually 5 mcg at a time while megadosing Mg.Any time my problems worsen, I either hold the dose or go back one step until the situation becomes easier. Even though I'm at ~25mcg only, I'm pleased to tell you that my breathing issues seem to be lessening and I feel all around slightly better day by day. I'm now also able to take large doses of kelp-iodine, which used to worsen my twitching and air hunger.

So I think D deficiency-induced functional Mg deficiency could play a part in your issues too. To answer your original question, I've also been taking calcium with magnesium at 2:1 ratio, which may have done something too.

Btw thiamine uses up Mg too. That might be why you feel worse with it

I think I might have been too quick to completely rule out magnesium deficiency as the issue. I do have low D and hadn’t realized Fludrocortisone has been shown to lower magnesium in the serum. I was supplementing magbesium but kind of stopped when the breathing issues got bad. The different AI models online say a deficiency can cause wheezing and behave similar to asthma , and I’m suspecting maybe it’s not an episodic thing in the case of magnesium deficiency.

So I’ve read that it’s difficult to increase magnesium orally. I’ve also read it’s harder when you have EDS, which I do. I’m probably going to keep taking the allithiamine I’m taking , and add in much more magnesium (the kind I have is magnesium malate). At one point I was taking like ten pills a day of magnesium , over 1000mg of elemental magnesium. I distinctly remember in the summer over a year ago now by the pool thinking to myself how clear my breathing felt before everything went to ***t.

Either of you have any idea what I should take to maximize magnesium uptake into cells ?

 

[mostlylurking]

I think I might have been too quick to completely rule out magnesium deficiency as the issue. I do have low D and hadn’t realized Fludrocortisone has been shown to lower magnesium in the serum.

Is Fludrocortisone a long term thing for you or did you just take it for a short time?

Fludrocortisone Side Effects: Common, Severe, Long Term

Learn about the side effects of fludrocortisone, from common to rare, for consumers and healthcare professionals.

www.drugs.com

Fludrocortisone Side Effects​

Medically reviewed by Drugs.com. Last updated on May 22, 2023.

Applies to fludrocortisone: oral tablet.

Serious side effects of Fludrocortisone​

Along with its needed effects, fludrocortisone may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking fludrocortisone:

Less common or rare​

• Abdominal pain
• agitation or combativeness
• anxiety
• back or rib pain
• blindness
• bloating
• bloody or black, sticky stools
• blurred vision
• burning in stomach
• changes in skin color
• chest pain or tightness
• chills
• confusion
• constipation
• convulsions
• cough
• coughing up blood
• darkened urine
• decrease in height
• decreased range of motion
• decreased urine output
• decreased vision
• depression
• difficulty swallowing
• dry mouth
• expressed fear of impending death
• eye pain
• eyeballs bulge out of eye sockets
• fainting or lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position
• fast or slow heartbeat
• fever
• flushed dry skin
• fractures in arms or legs without any injury
• fractures in the neck or back
• fruit-like breath odor
• hallucinations
• headache
• heartburn
• hives
• increased fat deposits on face, neck, and trunk
• increased hunger
• increased thirst
• increased urination
• indigestion
• irregular breathing or shortness of breath
• irregular heartbeat
• joint pain
• lack or slowing of normal growth in children
• walking with a limp
• loss of appetite
• loss of consciousness
• muscle cramps or pain
• nausea or vomiting
• nervousness
• pain, tenderness, or swelling of foot or leg
• pains in stomach or side, possibly radiating to the back
• patients taking oral medicines or insulin for diabetes may need to increase the amount they take
• pounding in the ears
• problems with wound healing
• redness and itching of skin
• redness of eyes
• redness of face
• severe or continuing dizziness
• severe weakness of arms and legs
• skin rash
• sweating
• swelling of face, fingers, feet, or lower legs
• swelling of nasal passages, face, or eyelids
• swollen neck veins
• tearing of eyes
• unexplained weight loss
• unusual tiredness or weakness
• vision changes
• weight gain
• wheezing
• yellow eyes or skin

Other side effects of Fludrocortisone​

Some side effects of fludrocortisone may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects.

Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

Less common or rare​

• Acne, pimples
• bruising, large, flat, blue or purplish patches in the skin
• change in color of skin or nails
• increased sweating
• loss of muscle mass
• menstrual changes
• muscle weakness
• reddish purple lines on arms, face, legs, trunk, or groin
• sleeplessness, trouble sleeping, unable to sleep
• small, red, or purple spots on skin
• swelling of abdominal or stomach area, full or bloated feeling or pressure in the stomach
• thin, fragile skin
• unusual increase in hair growth

For Healthcare Professionals​

Applies to fludrocortisone: compounding powder, oral tablet.

General​

Most adverse reactions are caused by this drug's mineralocorticoid activity including retention of sodium and water, hypertension, edema, cardiac enlargement, congestive heart failure, potassium loss, and hypokalemic alkalosis.[Ref]

Cardiovascular​

Frequency not reported: Hypertension, cardiac enlargement, congestive heart failure, thrombophlebitis, syncope, cardiomegaly, syncope[Ref]

Gastrointestinal​

Frequency not reported: Peptic ulcer, perforation, hemorrhage, pancreatitis, abdominal distention, ulcerative esophagitis, diarrhea[Ref]

Endocrine​

Frequency not reported: Cushingoid state developed, growth suppression in children, secondary adrenocortical and pituitary unresponsiveness, carbohydrate tolerance decreased, manifestation of latent diabetes mellitus, insulin requirements increased, oral hypoglycemic agent requirements increased[Ref]

Metabolic​

Frequency not reported: Hyperglycemia, negative nitrogen balance, potassium loss, hypokalemic alkalosis, sodium retention, fluid retention, appetite decreased[Ref]

Immunologic​

Frequency not reported: Necrotizing angiitis, anaphylactoid reaction[Ref]

Musculoskeletal​

Frequency not reported: Muscle weakness, steroid myopathy, loss of muscle mass, osteoporosis, vertebral compression fractures, aseptic necrosis of femoral and humeral heads, pathologic fracture of long bones, spontaneous fractures[Ref]

Ocular​

Frequency not reported: Posterior subcapsular cataract, intraocular pressure increased, glaucoma, exophthalmos[Ref]

Psychiatric​

Frequency not reported: Mental disturbance, insomnia[Ref]

Dermatologic​

Frequency not reported: Impaired wound healing, thin fragile skin, bruising, petechiae, ecchymoses, facial erythema, sweating increased, subcutaneous fat atrophy, purpura, striae, skin hyperpigmentation, nail hyperpigmentation, hirsutism, acneiform eruption, hives, reaction to skin tests suppressed, allergic skin rash, maculopapular rash, urticaria[Ref]

Genitourinary​

Frequency not reported: Menstrual irregularity, glycosuria[Ref]

Nervous system​

Frequency not reported: Convulsion, intracranial pressure increased, papilledema, vertigo, headache, seizure, epilepsy[Ref]

Other​

Frequency not reported: Edema, infection aggravated, masking of infection[Ref]
-end paste-

I was supplementing magbesium but kind of stopped when the breathing issues got bad.

Supplementing with some magnesium when you take thiamine would probably be helpful. However, if you are having negative symptoms from it (like diarrhea), then lower the dose. Dr. Costantini, who treated thousands of Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine hcl, advised them to take 75mg of magnesium each WEEK because he didn't want to upset their digestive tract. Dr. Costantini's website has a lot of very helpful information regarding thiamine.

So I’ve read that it’s difficult to increase magnesium orally. I’ve also read it’s harder when you have EDS, which I do. I’m probably going to keep taking the allithiamine I’m taking , and add in much more magnesium (the kind I have is magnesium malate). At one point I was taking like ten pills a day of magnesium , over 1000mg of elemental magnesium.

Look on your magnesium malate container, somewhere it should say how much you should take (like 1 pill) and how much magnesium is in the pill. A 250mg pill of magnesium malate won't equal to 250mg of magnesium. Here is an article about magnesium. There is such a thing as taking too much magnesium. I think that the maximum daily dose for pure magnesium is around 350-400mgs. I take this magnesium. The information at the link says that the recommended dose is 3100mg of the powder, which equals to 400mg of magnesium.

You should not experience negative symptoms when taking magnesium. If you do, you should lower the dose to bowel tolerance. Taking thiamine will improve your tolerance for magnesium. Don't overdo taking magnesium.

Magnesium Overdose: What’s the Likelihood?

Magnesium is found naturally in many foods and in your body. But like most things, there are dangers with getting too much. A magnesium overdose may result from taking too much of a supplement or medication containing magnesium. Here’s how this mineral works, and what happens when you get too...

www.healthline.com

"While rare in a person without certain chronic health conditions, you can overdose on magnesium. Symptoms can include digestive issues and respiratory distress, among others."

Either of you have any idea what I should take to maximize magnesium uptake into cells ?

Here's a video about magnesium tolerance being improved by taking thiamine:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBxWivhBdpA

 

[pubh12]

@mostlylurking

If one were Thiamine deficient , what would happen if they took only magnesium without thiamine? Would the thiamine deficiency worsen ?

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking

If one were Thiamine deficient , what would happen if they took only magnesium without thiamine? Would the thiamine deficiency worsen ?

I don't know if the thiamine deficiency would worsen but negative reactions to magnesium supplementation are more likely if there is a thiamine deficiency.